The city's worst-designed interesection has to be that at the heavily-trafficked corner of Viger and Papineau where those foot-travellers wanting to cross in a north-south direction have are governed by one of those red-hand/white-silhouette signs.
Amazingly, the light is either red, or it the red hand is on at all times. The white silhouette guy seems to have retired from his box. He never gets lit so pedestrians are never permitted to legally cross.
The cognitive dissonance among people waiting for the white walking man silhouette is something from a Just for Laughs gag, I've seen it countless times and the absolute confusion is saddening as the walkers in most cases have already waited a long time for the chance to cross, and then when it comes, it doesn't actually come.
Those who dare to walk when the light goes green (the universal sign for pedestrians to go ahead anyway) risk getting run over, as I can personally attest having gotten a shave from a truck a few months back.
There are smart people at the City of Montreal in charge of traffic but whoever designed this is not one of them.
Whenever I see a defective traffic light, broken water main, etc., I always phone the city at 313 (the most recently designated number for such purposes). They take the report and send a repair crew out pretty quickly unless there is another issue with a higher priority.
ReplyDeleteRegarding those yellow pedestrian push-button type traffic lights you see at certain intersections: I have a suspicion that many if not all of them are either broken or not even connected at all since they don't seem to make the light turn green any faster!
Furthermore, the city has a habit of randomly removing those push-buttons altogether--even those special ones which have an accompanying beep-tone for the visually-impaired.
many of the new (2-3 years old) buttons to activate pedestrian crosings at both Laurier and St-Joseph along Cote-Ste-Catherine are frequently defective and especially in the winter months when the cars are even less friendly to pedestrians than usual.
ReplyDeleteThese two intersection have supposedly modern redesigns, but the redesign doesn't take bike access at all into the spacing of lane widths. And the crappy rebuilding job occurred at the same time as the construction the cote-ste-catherine bike path on the same street corner! Oh, the irony! Oh, the inevitable ineffectiveness and obtuseness of bureaucracy.
I saw a report out of Winnipeg about this very subject and a traffic guy confessed that during rush hour periods the buttons are programmed not to work. There's a guy named Ottavio who works with, but not for, the city and knows about all these things, I'll try to ring him up some time.
ReplyDeleteIn years past while researching Gazette newspaper archives, I would often stumble across often humourous articles concerning Montreal's traffic lights and pedestrian crossing habits, jay-walking, etc. Interesting facts were revealed, many of which I unfortunately did not always log down in my notes.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I do seem to remember reading that the first push-button traffic light was installed for the benefit of school children crossing Monkland Avenue at the corner of Royal Avenue in NDG. Last time I looked, however, that button no longer exists--which isn't surprising since there many such buttons elsewhere in the west end that have long since been removed.
I do clearly remember them being at each corner along Fleet Road in Hampstead and Cote St. Luc where today mostly stop signs have replaced them. I can only assume that the cost of maintaining or replacing the buttons wasn't cost-effective or perhaps they were too often vandalized.
The first downtown pedestrian-crossing-type lights (circa 1956) with the flashing "little man walking" or "don't walk", "wait" pictograms were initially highly confusing to those who first encountered them, even though one would have thought that by then most people would have become familiar with such lights after watching contemporary American films and TV shows?
Montreal's first traffic light? See this link:
http://spacingmontreal.ca/2011/12/28/montreals-first-traffic-light/
Push-button pedestrian lights...love 'em, hate 'em? See:
http://enviropaul.wordpress.com/2011/10/25/push-button-traffic-lights-i-hate-em/
There was a push-button school crossing traffic light installed at the corner of Somerled and Rosedale in the mid-fifties.
ReplyDelete( There were others, also. )
As I recall, this was a school light only, with a sign at one end of the signal which was illuminated when the button on the pole was pushed, the sign reading, in yellow, 'Stop-Arret' illuminated from behind. )
The traffic lights were horizontal green/yellow red and were displayed only for traffic on Somerled. The sign was on the outer end from the curb.
Above the push buttons on the poles were small green lights which came 'on' when the traffic signal was at the stop indication and the electric sign was lit.
A favorite irk was to wait by the button until a speeding taxi was approaching and then press the button so he had to stop, no other traffic in sight, then saunter across sticking out one's tongues.
Learned new words in both official languages that way.
Around the same time there were flashing yellow/red street-level lights on those ubiquitous hemispherical concrete bases installed at Somerled and Fielding on West Broadway ( Alexandre Duranceau 1950 ) with two yellow aspects each facing east and west on Somerled and Fielding, and two red aspects each facing north and south on West Broadway, the Fielding installation being centred between the grass traffic islands.
The relay for the lights on the pole on the SW corner could be clicking on and off in the quiet of a humid Montreal summer's night.
One day we were on WB and the 102 was turning south off Fielding in a snow storm and a snow plough travelling in the wrong lane on Fielding hit the bus on it's left side, pushing the bus towards the west.
No one was hurt.
For the true nit-pickers. West Broadway USED TO be WIDER, and was 'narrowed' in the Seventies.
One day a horse pulling a milk wagon died at WB and Somerled, right in the middle of the intersection, obstructing traffic.
By osmosis all the children found out, and raced to the scene.
A winch truck arrived, a chain was put around the horse's neck, and started to pull it up the ramp into the truck.
Just then a herd of Mothers arrived, all the Fathers were at work, and chased us home from the grizly scene.
Thank You.
Interesting about those "school" traffic lights in the west end.
ReplyDeleteNot sure if the "beeper-type" traffic lights installed as a courtesy for visitors to the nearby Institute for the Blind are still located at the corner of Sherbrooke and Mayfair.
As an aside, I remember years ago a very irritating traffic light arrangement outside my hotel room in San Francisco.
Just after dawn, as the light changed to red, there would be a loud fire-drill type bell going off simultaneously with the traffic light, which eventually became extremely annoying.
Can't figure out any logical purpose for that bell, though. I suppose I could bother to do some further research into it.
Dear Mr. Urban Legend.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if you could help me find out information pertaining to a Traffic Signal Company named 'Municipal' which seemed to have cornered the Montreal market in the Fifties.
Some were also used in St. Jerome.
Their common model of traffic light was horizontal having TWO Reds displayed with the green/yellow aspects between the reds.
The identifier of these lights was a large letter 'M' in yellow on the angled steel brace supporting the light from the pole.
The also used a maple leaf emblem on certain signals.
A Municipal traffic signal can be see in the rear of this photo at the corner of-then Bois Franc, NOW Henri Bourassa, and present Boul. Marcel Laurin.
http://transit.toronto.on.ca/images/streetcar-4753-06.jpg
Route 17X was a single-track out to the WWII airplane plants next to the-then Cartierville Airport on Bois Franc where there was a loop for turning the streetcars.
CNR also had a turning loop at that location for turning back electric-locomotive-hauled trains from Val Royal to Montreal Central Station thru the tunnel.
South of Bois Franc was a service station on the west side of then-Rte. 11 which had a myriad of traffic signals on it's roof, they cycling green/yellow/red constantly.
I understand the signals were deemed a distraction to motorists to and from the Laurentians on-then Rte. 11 before the Autoroute to St. Jerome was opened, and were disconnected.
I do REMEMBER the audible signal at the Blind Institute on Sherbrooke, next to the restaurants, actually two restaurants, one on the NE corner with Cornation and Monkland, the other in the triangle with Monkland which later became a Mr. Hot Dog or something like that?
Way, way back there was a four-light flashing red signal in the centre of Monkland and Cornation which had a stamped-out-tin sign box suspended beneath the red aspects illuminated from within by a white light.
I do not recall, but the stamped-out wording was along the lines of Stop Arret.
This light would bob and weave in the wind on a dark stormy night and cast weird shadows on the junction between the two east/west roads, and Cornation.
Another of these lights was at Sherbrooke and NDG.?? where the Streetcar loop at Madison was.
A third, similar four-way light WITHOUT the illuminated sign was at Westminster and Parkside where the streetcars used to wye-back on the Westminster single-track to downtown thru 1953.
This four-way light on Westminster was there into the Eighties and was also a 'Municipal' and had a yellow maple-leaf 'Municipal' emblem on the bottom.
Thank You, Sir.
You are in luck, Mr. MP&I (Montreal Park & Island)...
ReplyDeleteLovell's Directory for 1955 shows:
Municipal Signal & Supply Co. Ltd.,
Traffic Control, fire alarm systems, pipe and hydrant
thawing machines and municipal equipment
D.E Hughes, Pres.
12050 Reed, Tel. RI-7-4788
Reed Street is now Blvd. Marcel Laurin, and 12050 is at the corner of Perinault and currently houses a car repair service.
A world of such information is at this link: http://bibnum2.bnquebec.ca/bna/lovell/
The corner of Westminster and Cote St. Luc had "M" traffic lights until spring 2012.
ReplyDeleteThe corner of Westminster and Westover still has them:
http://goo.gl/maps/ZWgni
Google Street View of our city is from 2009. Navigate over to Westminster/Cote St. Luc and you can see the old traffic lights.
St. Laurent had a whole bunch of them. The last ones I remember were at St. Louis and Gratton. They're long gone.
And Lasalle still has some which resemble Municpal's design, but lack the "M" poles at Lafleur and Clément:
http://goo.gl/maps/MsL19
Dear Mr. E. L.,
ReplyDeleteThank You, Sir!!
Wonder where they went, or were they renamed?
Their products were ubiquitous, so long ago.
NOW! I just Google Mapped that address AND that could well be the 'Service Station' with all the traffic signals on the roof I alluded to in the previous post!! In my mind's eye of almost 60 years ago, I thought the location to be further SOUTH. The building today is the right shape, set back and angle from the road!! as I remember.
Wonderful!!!
Seems like a small facility to produce the volume they did, or, maybe it was just an outlet with a factory elsewhere??
When we were kids we would travel to Ahuntsic on the Back River on the streetcar, once one of the MP&I Routes, and marvel at 5-digit addresses at the opposite end from the low ones that started with a "0" down by the St. Lawrence.
Similar to traveling, in one's child's mind, on a long trek to the Arctic as the numbers increased and increased inexorably.
Gosh, one is so innocent in youth.
Some times would like to have those days back, for a change.
Television and the Automobile changed so much in our time, as are the Internet and Cell phones and spin offs do presently.
I have a copy of the July 1931 Montreal Telephone Directory and Municipal does not appear in it in any of the obvious categories.
Opening the past page by page every time when the directory is opened. The adverts are lovely!
A time machine in book form.
All marvelous thanks to your expertise!
Merci for the link!
Thank You, Again!!
Glad to help out, MP&I.
ReplyDeleteI too wish I had a time machine with which to visit parts of the city by tram, etc., that I was totally unaware of or not paying any attention to at the time. After all, when you're a kid you tend focus on your only little "world" which is invariably only a few neighbourhood city blocks, and with parents not having a car it made other districts inacessible.
Back then, I never had the urge or interest to go off on long tram rides by myself in Montreal, but I got my "revenge" a few years back when visiting Melbourne, Australia, where, among other things, I rode every tram line to all parts of the city--a relaxing and inexpensive way to see different neighbourhoods.
The grinding squeal and clunk-clunk of those steel wheels has once again been re-ingrained in me. Of course, I'll visit the Delson/St. Constant rail museum every few years to see if they've refurbished any more equipment.
What they really need over there, however, is some philanthropist to write them a big check to get everything in storage running again. Hope I live long enough to see that day!
Dear Mr. U.E.,
ReplyDeleteAnother Thank You to you, and, special Thank You to Mr. Kristian to allow us the use of his Blog to 'relive' the past by old memories and recollections and to fill in blanks in ancient stories.
Now a story.
Back in '53 we got A CAR!
With THE CAR, streetcars and trains became instantly passe, and the mode of transportation shifted.
Not all was good, tho'.
Infrastructure lagged behind, and a trip to the Laurentians in THE CAR via Route 11 was an adventure.
In winter the prudent parked their cars and took the CNR via Morin Heights, 16-island Lake, Wier, Morrison. ( The sign from which wound up on a barn near by once the steel was lifted in '62 ) thru to Arundel, Intervale and Huberdeau.
We used to swim in Bevan Lake and then walk the CNR trestle over Bevan Creek on it's way to Arundel, the concrete highway bridge adjacent upstream built in 1960.
Anyway. In winter we often had to chain up THE CAR out of Piedmont or Morin Heights to get thru. The Sixteen Island and Wier hills were formidable then, and still are.
The steep descent into Monfort resembles the hill on Des Erables descending from Montreal West to Ville St. Pierre.
When conditions were really BAD, we would be advised by telephone to go around by St. Jovite and come in past the covered bridge, this route too often blocked by drifting snow.
The telephones 'up North' still the Magneto version.
Yes, sometimes is WAS better to take the train and leave the Sacred CAR at home.
The scariest part of the trip to the Laurentians by auto was NOT the weather, the gravel road btwn 16 Island lake and Wier, nor the icy curves.
It was something far more deadly!
Somewhere, somehow some bright bulb decided on a cheap fix to speed up traffic flow. A THREE LANE HIGHWAY with the centre lane for passing by vehicles travelling in the opposite direction on the outer two lanes.
Yes! a common centre passing lane for opposing traffic!!
This marvel was north from Ste. Rose on the long, straight flat towards St. Jerome.
( There was another three-lane down towards Drummondville. )
One can imaging the risks a driver was taking peering ahead at 50 miles per hour ( a closing speed of 100 MPH between two opposing cars ) and deciding whether to risk it, or not.
Other drivers in both directions would be thinking the same thing.
On a weekend, Friday trips were usually in daylight to go north, BUT Sundays were different.
By then the holiday was over. Drivers tired, and possibly hung over?? and the rush was on just to get home to Montreal and work and school in the morning.
People took chances, in the dark, headlights blinding face to face, road rage blinding rational thought.
Just scary!!
My Father was cautious and never passed coming south, but, others would go blazing by at 70 or 80 MPH, tail lights weaving in and out ahead into the distance.
One night a large car overtook and just missed getting in a head on crash beyond us.
We could follow his weaving progress ahead. An accident looking for a place to occur.
And it did!
Just south of the Ste Rose bridge he hit a car coming the other way.
Steam still rising as we crept past.
Terrible.
The crossing of the Cartierville bridge was a relief, as we were almost home, and highway speeds behind. The service station with all the traffic signals flashing a welcome on the right.
We braved the Decarie Circle at Continental Can, and the 17 streetcar, sometimes cutting thru Hampstead with all it's stop signs to escape Decarie and over to Fielding, and home.
The Autoroute saved the head on threat, but, in itself created more problems, as it allowed commuters to live out past Ste. Therese to get into Montreal in time for work.
The days of the three-lane highway finally ended, a scary part of auto history out of Montreal.
Thank You!
I do remember some of those 3-lane "highways" between here and the U.S.border in the late '60s. Possibly they are still there and considered as "secondary roads", although admittedly I haven't crossed the border by car since 1980 and even if I still had a car, I wouldn't dream of doing so today what with the often horrendous waiting periods of up to 2 hours at customs! Is it really worth such a ridiculously long wait just to go shopping in Plattsburgh or Burlington?
ReplyDeleteBack in the '50s, the few times we were driven by family friends to stay the weekend up at their cottages in "distant" Laval (then called l'Abord a Plouffe) or St. Francois de Sales on the north shore, I do recall the awful traffic jams approaching the Cartierville (Lachapelle) Bridge. I can clearly see all of those bumper-to-bumper '56 and '57 Chevies, Pontiacs, and Oldsmobiles--which I consider REAL cars and not the pitiful, identical-looking, tiny tin cans they produce these days for $30,000 each!
The Decarie Circle really WAS a circle, too, and the traffic was bad even back then. The nearby CNR level crossing didn't help matters, either. The building of underpasses was an ongoing political football about WHO was going to pay: the city or the railway? People had to die at those crossings, it seemed, before anything was finally done, even on Cote St. Luc Rd., Rockland Rd., and at many other such locations elsewhere on the island.
In the mid-50s I do recall that "official" Clanranald Avenue continued north over what is today Vezina Avenue and then over the CPR tracks as an "unofficial" (?) level crossing. No barrier, no lights, either. There was definitely much more rail traffic back then, too, both freight and passenger, yet cars did take advantage of the crossing. The Beaver Construction Company was located then where Decarie Square is today.
Sometime in the '60s that Clanranald level crossing was closed and a gate installed--which today doesn't seem to discourage pedestrians determined to avoid using the dingy, dirty underpass to the east, and illegally walking over the tracks toward the many businesses which have recently appeared around Wal-Mart and beyond.
In the mid-90s and onward the CPR even had some railcops handing out trespassing tickets, but that didn't last long! What should be built is a pedestrian overpass like the one near Jarry Park, and hopefully once the Blue Bonnets raceway property is rejuvenated residentially, such access will indeed be provided.
Alexis Nihon Blvd. should be connected via a tunnel to Montview as well.
Dear Mr. U.E.,
ReplyDeleteWe seem to share many parallels in our Montreal Lives!
We used to travel to the Laurentians, mostly in the summer, and used to go up by train which then had two steam locomotives which were substituted at Val Royal for the electric locomotives thru the tunnel from Central Station.
The last trips they had a Diesel, and we rode the true LAST passenger train to Lac Remi to Arundel and back in spring of 1962 with two passenger FPA4s in that green/yellow/black paint scheme.
There was a Wye at Intervale, just north of Arundel to turn trains and the legs crossed Bevan Creek on wooden trestles. The 'tail' of the wye went on to Huberdeau. The south wye is now used as a bike path between Arundel and Huberdeau. The old north wye is lost in the timber, 50 years later, a house now on the Lac Remi end.
We used to swim in Bevan Lake and then walk the CNR trestle over Bevan Creek on it's way to Arundel, the concrete highway bridge adjacent upstream built in 1960.
There was a steam saw mill downstream from Arundel on the CNR side and we would explore it from time to time. We went back in 2006 and it all had been removed for the metal.
We used to walk out to the locomotive turntable north of Montfort Station.
As you mentioned, we used to use the unofficial CPR crossing at Blue Bonnets rather than go over to Decarie, drunks from the race course staggering around looking for money, or worse.
YES! we looked at Beaver Construction with it's junky orange cranes and other equipment, a beaver in coveralls and a hat slouching as their logo!
Another junky contractor was Billet with worn out trucks groaning around painted a dark blue.
We heard the CPR 'Dayliner' blowing it's horn for the crossing at Cote St. Luc off West Broadway and it hit a pedestrian. A sign was soon erected which stated '4 have died at this crossing, will YOU be next? '
Construction soon started on the underpass near the Robbie Burns Tavern in that little piece of Montreal beyond the CPR opposite Adalbert.
There was a CPR crossing there whilst the underpass was getting built, another west of Westminster when that underpass was being constructed in 1960, on Wolsely??
When they built the Patricia Building in 1956? they brought in a stationary boiler to run the pile driver, it's sound bringing in kids, and adults from all around.
The Cote St. Luc shopping centre opened in 1956.
I had forgotten the Municipal signals at Westminster and CSL, with the yellow right turn arrow onto W., a trap as the cars going north had a green and west cars never stopped when turning right, proceeding on the yellow arrow. A trap there for years.
We used to LIVE near the tracks off CSL and watch heavy gravel trains with steam locomotives pull the grade from the NE Cable Plant by the CNR up to St. Luc Jct. at Rosedale.
We used to cut thru Sortin Yard to get to Highway 2-17 by Mussens Equipment and ride out to Grove Hill and the Dairy Queen. The Potato Chip company was on 2-17, then.
We were down in VSP when all the ambulances headed west to Dorion that nite as the eastbound CNR passenger went by our location, the ambulances heading to pick up the injured from the school bus hit by the freight.
When we got home we heard about it on CJAD and knew why all the ambulances.
Memories from youth, not all good, so long ago.
Thank You.
Level crossings!
ReplyDeleteDuring the Great Depression (long before my time!), Mayor Houde generated a lot of employment with public works projects including having many underpasses (called "subways" back then) built under local railway lines--but not everywhere.
Scanning newspaper archives will reveal all too many tragic stories of cars and trucks trying to beat the train or simply getting caught between barriers and ending up in horrific smashes.
One of the most notorious level crossings was the one between St. James (St.Jacques) and Notre Dame in Ville St. Pierre. Vehicles heading south from St. James toward Dollard Avenue (or vice versa) on what was then called 5th Avenue (as part of Route 4) toward the "Jackknife Bridge" (the then lift bridge over the Lachine Canal) would try to beat the flashing lights warning of approaching trains generally highballing at great speed along the tracks of the then mainline CNR.
Years and years of political wrangling over how to solve issue--underpasses?, overpasses?--achieved nothing until the CNR finally closed the line altogether around 1961 and moved it further north to where it is today--running beneath the underpass on St. Jacques just south of Ronald Drive.
This will explain to anyone who has ever wondered why there is still a railway line (though seldom used) next to the bike path and extending only as far as 10th Avenue, and why there is such a wide gap between Victoria and William MacDonald. It is a remnant of the original CNR main line.
Very busy level crossings still exist today, however, such as the busy one over de Courcelle and on St. Ambroise west of the Atwater Market where you can sit in your vehicle for a very long time as a 100-car plus freight trains cross over and Via Rail passenger trains speed through as well!
Those pedestrian buttons to change the traffic signal are probably placebos. Same with the 'close-door' button in elevators. They give the illusion to the person that progress is being made, and they have some control over the cycle.
ReplyDeleteSometime, you will even see these pedestrian buttons bolted on wooden traffic light poles. With no visible wires anywhere, there is no way the pole has a hollow channel in it to run wire from the button to the lights.
The only place I see them being functional is where it is only a pedestrian crossing, ie. not an intersection (like the one on Park between Fairmount and St-Viateur), which would otherwise stay green all the time for motorists.
Thanks for the memories, guys, although yours go much further back than mine. That service station on Perinault and Laurentian Blvd is still around. The place across Perinault on the same (western) side of Laurentian, with the big glass showroom walls used to be in the 80s a Jeep-Eagle dealership (and possibly AMC before that). Later on it was a luxury car dealer (Ferraris, Lambos, Maseratis, etc).
ReplyDeleteI used to walk Perinault past the tracks through a vacant lot to hit Cousineau on my way home from the 180bus stop on Salaberry or from the 64 stop on Grenet. The Dragon House was in the strip mall just around the corner, mentioned in the old resto thread.
Across Laurentian and north a bit is Snookers billiards. They moved there about 15 or so years ago from their Gouin (Cafe Sports) location, just west of Laurentian across from the Harem. We used to shoot pool at both those places throughout our school years.
The big strip mall just south of Gouin on the west side used to be a Val Royal lumber and construction material business, I believe, when we moved to Cartierville early 80s. Then the plaza over 20 years ago, which has seen almost every brand of supermarket open and close in the anchor unit, not to mention a Pharmaprix in another large unit, a video store, and various Arab restos. Dead plaza that for whatever reason never did well, even after they put in a traffic light at the mall entrance some years back.
When I saw 12050 address I instantly knew it was in my folks' neighbourhood. Our address was 12035; as kids we were also intrigued by the big numbers after our 5000 and 8000 address in Mile End and Park Ex.
I remember Cartierville airport and had no idea Henri-Bourassa used to be Bois-Franc. I remember fighter planes in the 80s using the airport. Once mowing the lawn, the engine noise was drowned out by a loud CF-18flying low. I believe the small bungalows on the south side of Henri-Bourassa just west of O'Brien and east of Grenet were serviceman homes, classic austere shape and materials.
That long Cartierville Airport runway used to end just south of where Bois Franc continued eastward to link with Henri
ReplyDeleteBourassa approximately at Place Vermandere just east of Toupin. That runway was later extended around 1960-61 to enable the CF-100and successor fighter jets to make test flights over the west island. Persistently loud and annoying those flight were, too!
In those days--up until 1964 when the Trans Canada Highway was opened--it was mostly farmland and riding stables, later replaced by the existing industrial park.
I remember when the City of St. Laurent made a blunder by publishing a map showing Cartierville Airport being closed down and replaced by a residential area, and then having to deny to the protesting public about any such plan, despite the fact that is exactly what did happen shortly afterwards!
How many remember back in the late 1950s when on rare occasion large passenger jets (flown by American rookie pilots, no doubt!) heading for Dorval Airport erroneously landed at Cartierville Airport instead, and only just managing to stop on its shorter runways?! How embarrassing that must have been.
Back to those cross-walk buttons:
ReplyDeleteWe have definitely fallen behind our overseas compatriots both in Australia and New Zealand where on some busy intersections pedestrians are even allowed to cross diagonally.
See this:
http://www.doobybrain.com/2011/08/21/australian-crosswalk-buttons/
Back in the early Sixties a runway footprint at Cartierville Airport was extended across Bois Franc and traffic lights installed so traffic would be held back when airplanes were in the vicinity.
ReplyDeleteAmazing, but true! for a while, anyway.
Later, Bois Franc was configured into a U-shape North around the end of the runway, roughly where the golf course 'bends' Henri Bourassa.
This photo shows the U in Bois Franc.
http://winnipegacc.org/pages/index9_cv/cv1961.jpg
From this site.
http://www.winnipegacc.org/pages/index9_cv/index9_cv.html#story
It is not hard to see that the road actually once went straight thru to where Rue Pierre Daginas is now, and Bois Franc is still Bois Franc.
Back then it was all open country.
I have NOT checked, but, when closed, the Cartierville Airport was one of the OLDEST Airports in Canada dating back to 1918 or so.
The traffic light is mentioned, here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartierville_Airport
History Lives!
Thank You, Mr. Kristian, and so many others.
As I happened to live briefly in Pierrefonds during the early '60s, I well remember those fighter jets from Cartierville Airport zooming suddenly over our neighbourhood.
ReplyDeleteWe kids would sometimes ride our bikes to Bois Franc around the time the east end of it was closed off at the runway extension, and then having to make that detour around it.
A few decades later, just out of curiosity I once again biked to that Bois Franc dead end to discover a few residences and a heavily-overgrown wooded area.
As I rode along a nearby forest trail, another cyclist appeared
behind me, watching me closely and seeming too curious about what I was doing there, so I became suspicious that he was possibly afraid I might stumble across his marijuana grow-op! Just a suspicion, mind you, but after all, how often does it happen that a strange cyclist will suddenly come out of nowhere to follow you around?
For those who don't already know, the former Canadair plant near the Cartierville Airport was very busy during WWII, providing many jobs to Montrealers. Over the succeeding decades, Canadair was a mainstay of the local economy,
later to be purchased by Bombardier.
Great tramway pics! I have seen some of them elsewhere. You surely must have Richard M. Binns book, "Montreal's Electric Streetcars" published by Railfare years ago?
ReplyDeleteThat Rochon tram 17 line is where Grenet Avenue is today served by bus route 64--previously route 17 which years ago was split up at Cote Vertu Metro, forcing everyone to change busses.
The apartment building to the left of the Cartierville 17 tram was/is part of the Norgate apartments built after WWII.
I remember one of them burned to the ground a few decades ago around Christmas time, tragically ruining residents holidays!
That skyview of Cartierville Airport's runway also shows the old CNR Lazard turning loop.
The 'point' of posting some of the old photos is that many are not labelled, and, it is up to us past 60's to identify the locations where we can.
ReplyDeleteWe used to ride the 17 Cartierville autobus after the streetcars came off in 1959, and it was NOT the same!
There used to be a short bridge on the Tramways over a creek whch also went across Route 11 and was there the boundary between the South parimeter of the Canadair plant and Concreters Readymix.
The piers for the steel bridge on Rte 17 were evident for years where Grenet now runs.
I understand there is another Montreal Streetcar book in the making, and I hope it will be printed, soon.
Thank You, All.
Yes, MP&I, you are right, those brown and cream coloured Brill busses which replaced the Cartierville route 17 tram
ReplyDeleteweren't the same. Such is "progress"!
The end of an era had passed, and trams were gone from virtually every major city
worldwide--with the exception of some remaining Toronto lines and in Melbourne, Australia where
the trams still reign supreme.
That creek you mentioned near Canadair was apparently a well-known fishing spot even as late as the 1950s. I even remember
riding my bike across the shallow spots of that creek in the mid-60s, but inevitably it was placed underground in pipes which
currently lie beneath a couple of parks and the bikepath beginning near Cardinal and Tasse up to Poirier and O'Brien.
Notice Du Ruisseau Avenue just east of there--clearly a reference to that creek, which, by the way was notorious for routinely flooding some streets and basements following heavy downpours! Public protest surely forced St. Laurent to finally
fix the problem.
Further information about Montreal's former creeks and streams can be found here:
http://www.undermontreal.com/montreal-lost-rivers-maps/
The existing Grenet underpass just north of Henri Bourassa was, as you will remember, originally an exclusive tram right-of-way, and later even exclusive to the busses for some years afterwards, if my memory is correct. Perhaps not.
There are--or were--some videocassettes of Montreal's trams available. These will hopefully still be found on DVD at local railfan conventions and at the Delson Railway Museum:
http://www.exporail.org/en/welcome-to-exporail/
You guys are awesome! The pics of the Grenet line are something. We often played ball hockey in a schoolyard off Rochon, an old red brick school that probably was around back then.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that those apt buildings are called Norgate, the same name as the mall adjacent to Cote-Vertu metro station. I always thought they were projects built in the 60s or so for low income tenants.
I definitely have to look up all those streams.
Not sure about the origin of that overpass over Grenet north of H-B, but as long as I remember (early 80s) it has been the spot where the suburban rail passes.
Thanks for the history lessons, gents!
Update:
ReplyDeleteAccording to the Montreal Gazette article of November 6, 1951, page 3, entitled "'Wait-Walk' Lights For Pedestrians at Sherbrooke-Victoria Start Today", this is the location where such traffic lights were first installed in the City.
The article also states that a police officer would be onsite to "educate the pedestrians how to use the push button...".