: This photo was listed as portraying "excavations for Canadian National Railway construction." That would surely mean that it's where Central Station sits, possibly looking south from around
Mansfield and Dorch, as Boxelman persuasively argued in the comments.
Building train tracks in lower Westmount?
ReplyDeleteIt appears we are looking in the direction of the Old Port roughly from an area where the current Central Station would be. The Black Horse Brewery building is still there on 740 St-Maurice St. and the Farine Five Roses building (minus the famous sign) can be seem in the far background.
ReplyDeleteno
ReplyDeleteBolexman's comment leads me to think my gut reaction might be on target:
ReplyDeleteThe big hole that was on Dorchester for many years before they built PVM in it?
Buildings on the left look to be on a slope, so I am thinking somewhere between St Jacques, and Dorchester. I want to say Griffintown/Pointe St. Charles but the topography seems off.
ReplyDeleteI am finding it a little hard to gauge distance in a lot of these old photos. I saw an old one recently from Mount Royal and Notre Dame in Old Montreal looked like it was 3 blocks away.
Ok, I am going to say around University and Gauchetiere. Maybe even on a now extinct street a block or 2 east or west of that. Tried to dig deeper but could not find a good enough map from back then.
ReplyDeleteMaybe what they are building on the right is what would become the Queen Elizabeth hotel? It was not completed until about 10 years later but maybe this is some rail work being done underneath or it took them a really really long time to build?
I have to agree with Phillip.
ReplyDeleteNo idea, here.
ReplyDeleteReference to Minty Tooth Paste, ?? Works ?, and Packard??? on the sign cluster might be a further clue as to location.
This is definitely the excavation and the initial construction phase of Central Station's main concourse.
ReplyDeleteThe building with the Minty Toothpaste sign would be exactly where the Bonaventure Hotel is today.
A similar photo showing a wider vista and more detail can be found on page 25 in the booklet "The Mount Royal Tunnel", by Anthony Clegg.
So the cyclist is on what is today's Mansfield St.?
ReplyDeleteInteresting.
The dark-coloured truck moving west up the ramp has presumably just driven up the steeper incline next to the crane.
ReplyDeleteUnderneath would be the building of the concourse from where passengers now board the trains on the next level down.
If indeed it is the construction of Central Station, then the date of the photograph can't be 1947. Central Station opened in 1943.
ReplyDeleteThe boffins in Quantico, Va. could use you readers. Great eyes for detail.
ReplyDeletePeabody
Judges?
ReplyDeleteBefore the CNR Viaduct, and the double-track double-span lift bridge over the Lachine Canal at Wellington/Bridge St. were constructed, Electric Trains were operated into a dead-end terminal from the North thru the Mount Royal Tunnel, ONLY, the wires, then ending at Val Royal Station ( where Montreal Tramways crossed under on Cartierville 17 on later Grenier. ) where there was a roundhouse for servicing steam locomotives for beyond that point.
ReplyDeleteThis Canadian Northern Station was near the Northeast corner of Lagauchetiere and Mansfield, this terminal lasting into the Fifties.
Can Nor station 1930 looking South from above South entrance to MR Tunnel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fosse_du_Canadien_National_Montreal_1930.jpg
In the following photo, Central Station is 'New', the old Can Nor station to right rear.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Canadian_National_Central_Station%2C_Montreal.jpg
The entrance to the Concourse from Dorchester is on the SE Corner, the long corridor is visible, now under the QE Hotel.
The Minty's Toothpaste Building is visible to the East/Left of clock/elevator tower.
The dump truck and cyclist are quite a bit East from Mansfield.
Later, the CNR viaduct and track would be built South, curving West to Bridge and South to Pointe St. Charles Shops and Victoria Bridge, or continue further West to Turcot Yard and beyond.
Old CNR Bonaventure Station was below CPR Windsor Station.
Catenary wires were put up between Pointe St. Charles and Turcot East near St. Remi c. 1943, crossin the Lachine Canal on a double-track swing bridge near the City Incinerator on St. Patrick.
Electric Locomotives from the National Harbours Board were swapped for steam locomotives.
Three new electric locomotives were built in 1950s, plus a fleet electric MU cars.
C. 1944 the New CNR Connection between EJ Tower near Vertu and Pointe aux Trembles was completed and partly-electrified for commuter trains. Steam engines changed out at Gohier for East/North trains via PoT.
In the Good Old Days, a CNR freight for PoT went from Turcot West near Brock and 2-17, thru Ballantyne Jct.-St. Laurent, crossing Cartierville 17 at grade on Decarie to EJ/Vertu, then North via Val Royal to St. Jerome, East to Joliette, then back to PoT. and the Refineries.
A CNR train could once go West from St. Jerome via Cushing Jct.-Grenville-Hawksbury, Ontario to Ottawa.
CNR Track East and West from St. Jerome lifted in the Forties.
North from St. Jerome CNR then went to Lac Remi via Morin Heights-16 Island Lake-Huberdeau.
Elecrification was extended to St. Eustache.
Anyway, a big project, completed over several years, a portion of which is shown in the Minty's toothpaste photo on Coolopolis.
Thank You.
Regarding MP&I's photo link:
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Fosse_du_Canadien_National_Montreal_1930.jpg
In 1931, St. Paul's Church was slated to be demolished to make way for the construction of Central Station. It was saved from demolition by the Pères de Sainte-Croix who purchased the building for the symbolic sum of $1. Over sixty days it was dismantled stone by stone and moved to the grounds of the Collège Saint-Laurent. It was reassembled by architect Lucien Parent who modified the church slightly for its new role as a Roman Catholic church. It was also raised by one floor to allow for a theatre, Salle Émile-Legault to be built underneath. The theatre was home to the well-known Compagnons de Saint-Laurent French-language theatre troupe. It became vacant following the secularization of the institution, and was converted into a museum in 1979. The Musée des maîtres et artisans du Québec is today located in what was originally St. Paul's Church.
A Codicil.
ReplyDeleteIn 2008 my Father passed away in Toronto ( Toronna? ) the Whatever, and I had to bring his ashes 'Home'.
Rather than 'fly' or travel the F'ing 401 with all the other drones going nowhere, fast, I decided to come back by Train.
I took a seat on the right, as always, and we left On Time.
Good Bye, TO.
A route traveled many times before, but, together for the last time, on a train, bound for Montreal, and 'Home'.
He went Overseas from Kingston in '40.
Memories flew past with the mile posts, all familiar ground in from Coteau.
We once went by rail from Coteau to Cantic, parallel to Quebec Route 52 back in the day.
And from Central Station to Cantic and return on a Budd Rail Diesel Car after the CV train came off.
( We called the RDC the 'The St. Jeans, Quebec and Cantic Limited' in Direct competition with the 'other' train at St. Jeans, the CPR's St. John, New Brunswick, 'Atlantic Limited', the latter having domes and stainless steel, from Budd. )
Anyway, we sped in from Ste. Annes on the 'Last Trip' my Father and I, along the Lakeshore, once all bush and the Dorval Shopping Centre new.
Used to be a level crossing at 55th.
A BIG illuminated BA Oil sign at Mussens, flashing 88/98, their grades of fuel, on the curve down to Dominion Engineering across from the potato chip plant.
Over the St. Pierre River and near the-once-location of the 'S-Bridge' at Ville St. Pierre, spanning the CNR via Lachine, Dominion and Dixie and the Montreal Tramways to Lachine and Stoney Point.
( It WOULD BE nice if 'Mr. Ro' produces a photo of the S-Bridge!! )
Thru Turcot yards where we saw steam die together 60 years ago and rode the 91 Lachine to Dominion Bridge for the last time.
Past where hoodlums would later die spraying paint.
Graffiti, in Blood, on the concrete?
Fools!
Over the Canal and the Wellington 58 tunnels, a marvel in their day.
Along the Viaduct and thru the slip switches, once the route of The Turbo, to the final stop.
My father and I had arrived. On Time.
We ascended to the Concourse, a Transportation Cathedral.
Memories everywhere.
The Red Light, the Green Light. The Loudspeakers that once announced Canada.
An old Friend awaited.
Both home again for the Last Time.
Central Station, Montreal.
I wanted to Cry.
But, did not, right then.
We went and had a drink, instead.
Then out to Montreal West on a STM Train, looking over St. Henri and memories of The Bell and the Northern Electric on Shearer, before the War.
Later Got drunk and reminisced some more, about Ahuntsic and the Tramways.
Thank You.
This is the construction of the first ICAO building, on the southwest corver of Université & Dorchester, besides Central Station; the photographer stood about there:
ReplyDeletehttps://maps.google.com/maps?q=yul&hl=en&ll=45.501888,-73.567307&spn=0.004414,0.009645&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=40.732051,79.013672&hq=yul&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.501767,-73.567422&panoid=3oR0qfva0FDKB2je-oAuIQ&cbp=12,128.19,,0,2.7
The ICAO moved on Sherbrooke/Mansfield, accross McGill around 1980, and ironically moved back on Université, below Viger (old Vitré) a few years ago.
Addentum: some months ago, they put up somed fantastic old pictures (many of which I never saw before) of Central Station & vicinity in the eastern corridor between Central Station & Place Ville-Marie.
ReplyDeleteWell worth the trip (even from Tranah).
@emdx If you look at your streetview link, you will notice the Bell Building on the left. That would already have been there at the time of this photo, that's why I went with Gauchetiere. I couldn't find anything about 1060 University or 777 de la Gauchetiere, to know when that was built and if that is the building being constructed in the photo, but even still, the bell building would have been visible.
ReplyDeleteAs someone already noted, central station had already been constructed although several concourses were added after. Perhaps this is one being added or an existing one being covered?
Gentlemen, I must protest with the utmost energy!
ReplyDeleteAllow me to vigorously dissent, and prove that the "solution" proposed is plainly erroneous. I maintain that the houses on the left are currently in the middle of Université avenue and that the excavation are for the ICAO building; you just can’t see the BTCOC* building because the angle isn’t right.
Proof: upon consulting the following iconographic document: (CN picture #CN004185, taken in 1943).
you can clearly see the Black Horse sign, and the service viaduct (at end) going along the east side of the Central Station building, and the slope going down to the track level on the EAST side of the station.
Precisely where the old ICAO building was built.
You can also recognize the houses on the left, and the sign is a Coca Cola advertisement. Unfortunately, the "Minty's toothpase" is blurry, but can be distinguished nevertheless.
I still maintain that this was work pertaining to the erection of the ICAO building, as you can see the crane busy with piling a restraining wall into the ground, obviously prior to excavating the lot.
Shameless plug: other photos of Central Station.
The "service viaduct" still exists as an un-named street running north from De Lagauchetière, all the way to underneath Dorchester, as a collection of loading docks serving the various buildings above Central Station, and coming out as the entrance ramp to the Queen-Elizabeth lower lobby; Here is a view from Lagauchetière "up" that "service viaduct".
Last, the following general aerial view of downtown with Central Station will help to locate the Black Horse brewery (on St-Paul or William between St-Henri & Queen) and the Minty Toothpaste (on St-Maurice). Clearly, the BTCOC* buildings are slightly left of the camera field.
* La Compagnie de Téléphone Cloche du Canada.
Another interesting view looking West from LZ 127 'Graf Zeppelin'?
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/structures/index_view.cfm?photoid=23322938&id=37
Thank You.
Bearing in mind that this entire area has been modified countless times over the decades, a simple comparison between the disputed photo in question and the one generously provided by emdx, namely:
ReplyDeletehttp://maison.emdx.org/GareCentrale/CN004165.jpg
clearly places the photographer to be standing on Dorchester Blvd. looking south over the east side of the viaduct upon which the cyclist is heading northwards.
The viaduct upon which construction and service vehicles used to drive is directly over subterranean railway track 23 and perhaps also track 22.
This viaduct was eventually and partially transformed into a narrow parking lot accessible from de LaGauchetiere on the southeast side of Central Station as well as covered by a lane further north of Belmont next to the actual brownish-bricked concourse building. There is a Tim Horton's directly facing east towards that narrow parking lot entrance. East of the parking lot itself is 777 de LaGauchetiere. See Google maps from that location.
Conclusive proof can easily be determined by comparing the partially-cutoff "good taste" (likely a beer ad) billboard sign which faces west on the left of the disputed photo to the aforementioned leftmost billboard sign on the roof of the building in the http://maison.emdx.org/GareCentrale/CN004165.jpg photo which shows the sign's rear (east) side.
Note the identical floodlight fixtures bending over the top of the billboard. Furthermore, look carefully and in both photos you will see the two chimneys on the roof to the south of the billboard sign.
All of those old buildings have, of course, long since been demolished to make way for the modern buildings which now occupy the west side of University Street in that block as well as the Queen Elizabeth Hotel. Layer upon layer of changes over time can very easily confuse the researcher. Detailed construction blueprints would be necessary to examine every minute detail.
Save the aforementioned two photos to your picture file, minimize them, and line them up next to each other for ease of comparison.
"Mystery" solved.
A view of the Double-Track Double-Span lift bridge over the Lachine Canal just East of Wellington and Bridge, looking Southwest towards Pointe St. Charles Shops.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.imagescn.technomuses.ca/railways/index_view.cfm?photoid=-184628900&id=56
Canaller upbound from Montreal Harbour.
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lsb652PF0A1qd3g3go1_500.jpg
The towers with their concrete counterweights were cut down in 1967.
The single-track swing bridge in foreground once carried the CPR Canal Bank line East from LaSalle along St. Patrick Street and connected with National Harbours Board to east of this photo location.
There was a small 'Yard' in Cote St. Paul just East of Church where Yard engines and Cabooses were kept when not in use switching the various industries along the route.
A big customer was Northern Electric on Shearer St. with it's Island Street Yard.
To the far right of first image is a brick ventilation tower for the Wellington Street Tunnel below the Lachine Canal.
Back in the Fifties, before we had a car, a special treat would be to travel to Montreal Harbour to watch ships lock thru the Lachine Canal and the M&SC cars cross Blacks Bridge, which swung open and closed for ships. After, walk along Mill or thru the warren of streets to the West, and marvel as the lift bridges magically rose and fell, depending on whether a vessel was up or down bound.
M&SC car from South Shore and Victoria Bridge at Blacks Bridge.
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_electric/MSC_105b.jpg
A bonus would be a ride home on a streetcar thru the Wellington Tunnel, there being two tunnels on the outside for motor vehicles and two other tunnels in the centre for streetcars.
West end Wellington Tunnel. Lift Bridge to left beyond.
http://www.explorationurbaine.ca/abandonne/Tunnel%20Wellington/S61112D29.jpg
You could spend all day at the Harbour for the cost of two streetcar tickets each, travel home to Snowdon and talk about the wonders one had seen and think about the names on the ships and where they were from, or might be going.
Elderly swing bridge on Wellington before the tunnel.
http://www.mccord-museum.qc.ca/scripts/large.php?accessnumber=MP-0000.879.7&Lang=1&imageID=245370
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6038/6283267006_f3c8be1d06_z.jpg
Thank You.
Before the Atwater was built during the early 1950s, there was a vehicular bridge over the Lachine Canal just east of the present-day pedestrian/bicycle path bridge.
ReplyDeleteOn the south side of the canal and just to east of the aforementioned pedestrian/bicycle path bridge is a concrete wall remnant.
The steel bridge itself was dismantled and moved to cross over a canal at Iroquois Point, Ontario.
Typo correction - re. word previously omitted:
ReplyDeleteBefore the Atwater Tunnel was built during the early 1950s, there was a vehicular bridge over the Lachine Canal just east of the present-day pedestrian/bicycle path bridge.
On the south side of the canal and just to east of the aforementioned pedestrian/bicycle path bridge is a concrete wall remnant.
The steel bridge itself was dismantled and moved to cross over a canal at Iroquois Point, Ontario.
Back in the Fifties the Atwater Bridge over the Lachine Canal had just been removed, but, the 'Approach' was still very visible on the South shore with much masonry still in place.
ReplyDeleteThe Atwater Tunnel was opened c. 1951.
( Back in the Sixties we walked around the ventilation towers of the still-in-use Wellington Tunnel ( the streetcars left in 1957 ) and the once-location of the Wellington Swing Bridge could still be seen in the canal walls just upstream.
We walked across the swing bridge, which was still in use.
The thing to 'do' in the Wellington Tunnel was to start blowing the horn on your car. THEN everyone would do it, creating a huge din! One of the so-called 'Joys' of youth. )
Heading North from St. Patrick at Atwater, one first crossed the CPR Canal Bank line from LaSalle/Highlands to the Swing Bridge at Wellington, and then went up a paved slope to where the Atwater bridge once was.
There was a barricade and a Road Closed sign there for ever.
On the South East corner of Atwater and St. Patrick was the Sherwin Williams paint works with a large 'Covers the Earth' sign on the corner.
Way back they floated a German U-Boat from WW II to Chicago. It was moored for a while on the South side of the Lachine Canal at Rue de Montmorency and we all trooped down to see it.
An interesting site.
http://stlawrencepiks.com/seawayhistory/beforeseaway/lachine/
Is there a photo of the Atwater Bridge somewhere?
Thank You.
Regarding the Atwater Bridge, after much research, I actually did finally spot a photo of it a few years back, but I have forgotten exactly where. It may have been in the Lachine Canal Museum near St. Patrick and Lyette.
ReplyDeleteThe museum's book shop has many publications, including a 215-page book entitled "The Lachine Canal--Riding the Waves of Industrial and Urban development 1860-1950", by Yvon Desloges and Alain Gelly, published 2002 by Septentrion.
Although the book does not include any photos of the Atwater bridge, it has others such as Black's Bridge and the Jackknife Drawbridge, the latter now frozen in closed position and connecting what is today St. Pierre Avenue to St. Patrick and south to Dollard Avenue.
See: http://www.septentrion.qc.ca/english-books/featured-titles.asp
Unfortunately, Google newspaper archives and others online are still woefully inadequate when it comes to detailed research about construction dates, openings, etc. Google's so-called archive "sorting" methods are worse than useless, and there are no short-cuts. Only by painstaking searches, edition by edition, through The Gazette and other periodicals will thus far produce any satisfactory results--depending of course on the subject in question.
Nevertheless, until I find the time to dig further, see The Gazette, July 27, 1951, page 27, for the article entitled, "First of 2 Tunnels...".