Montrealers occasionally hear ex-Montrealers boast about how great it is to live on the West Coast.
Indeed entire websites exist to allow former Quebecers to crow about their great decision to leap from the lobster pot to greener Canadian pastures. (Control your metaphors! - Chimples)
Montrealers transplanted to Vancouver might be the worst of all, as they drone on about how warm, beautiful and leafy it is and how they love walking around the mountains in sweat pants and K-Ways.
But we get the last laugh by making good coin while making Vancouver homes unaffordable.
Wait. What?
How can Quebec make money and raise Vancouver home prices?
C'est quoi le rapport?
We pull off this circus stunt by taking money from millionaire immigrants to allow them to move west.
Quebec has maintained a system that allows foreign families with wealth of $1.6 million or more to buy a Canadian passport by loaning the provincial government $800,000 interest-free for five years.
The feds pulled the plug on their immigrant investor program a couple of years back.
But Quebec, for some reason, has its own immigration system.
Quebec sold citizenship to 65,151 immigrant investors (mostly from China) between 2002 and 2014.
Once those wealthy newcomers arrived in Quebec, many quickly moved to Vancouver and spent big coin on housing.
So now as a result, many Vancouver residents can no longer afford living in their own city.
It's a great deal for Quebec though.
Quebec targets 1,750 household investor immigration applications annually.
So Quebec bags about $1.4 billion in interest free loans five-year loans per year from the deal.
If Quebec were to score a 10 percent return on that interest free loan - as the Caisse du Depot has been known to get - that deal brings Quebec $140 million annually in exchange for making Vancouver unaffordable to all but these immigrants, and Vancouver celebs Michael J. Fox, Brian Adams and Michael Buble.
In 2013 Quebec fielded 5,389 investor immigration applications from foreign households (each household representing about 3.6 people). In 2014 that total decreased to 1,400 partly because bureaucracy-loving Quebec made the 15-page application too complicated and onerous.
So how has this scheme hurt Vancouver exactly?Indeed entire websites exist to allow former Quebecers to crow about their great decision to leap from the lobster pot to greener Canadian pastures. (Control your metaphors! - Chimples)
Montrealers transplanted to Vancouver might be the worst of all, as they drone on about how warm, beautiful and leafy it is and how they love walking around the mountains in sweat pants and K-Ways.
But we get the last laugh by making good coin while making Vancouver homes unaffordable.
Wait. What?
How can Quebec make money and raise Vancouver home prices?
C'est quoi le rapport?
We pull off this circus stunt by taking money from millionaire immigrants to allow them to move west.
Quebec has maintained a system that allows foreign families with wealth of $1.6 million or more to buy a Canadian passport by loaning the provincial government $800,000 interest-free for five years.
The feds pulled the plug on their immigrant investor program a couple of years back.
But Quebec, for some reason, has its own immigration system.
Quebec sold citizenship to 65,151 immigrant investors (mostly from China) between 2002 and 2014.
Once those wealthy newcomers arrived in Quebec, many quickly moved to Vancouver and spent big coin on housing.
So now as a result, many Vancouver residents can no longer afford living in their own city.
It's a great deal for Quebec though.
Quebec targets 1,750 household investor immigration applications annually.
So Quebec bags about $1.4 billion in interest free loans five-year loans per year from the deal.
If Quebec were to score a 10 percent return on that interest free loan - as the Caisse du Depot has been known to get - that deal brings Quebec $140 million annually in exchange for making Vancouver unaffordable to all but these immigrants, and Vancouver celebs Michael J. Fox, Brian Adams and Michael Buble.
In 2013 Quebec fielded 5,389 investor immigration applications from foreign households (each household representing about 3.6 people). In 2014 that total decreased to 1,400 partly because bureaucracy-loving Quebec made the 15-page application too complicated and onerous.
Vancouver the unaffordable
Take the Crack Shack or Mansion? test to fully understand.
Vancouver real estate has become a "world class freakshow," as Vancouver journalist Ian Young has noted in several articles and in an interview on Canadaland.
Vancouver has a price-to -income ratio of 10.6.
A decade ago that ratio was 5.3. That's a 100 percent hike in a decade.
Other expensive cities like London and New York have seen wages rise with home prices, but not Vancouver, which has seen more wealth migration than any other city in the world.
Montreal might find it hard to relate to the problem of having too many rich people.
Unlike other big Canadian cities Montreal home prices have risen slower than a Terry Harper slapshot. (see graph).
Compared to other large Canadian cities, Montreal has by far Canada's slowest GDP growth. We have the highest unemployment rate and population has grown about half the rate of its peers.
If you bought a house in Vancouver or Toronto over 10 years ago you have seen your asset grow by a vast amount of money so that's a pretty good deal. Both cities are not affordable for most young people today. San Francisco and NYC in the US are the same.
ReplyDeleteYour piece seems to want to make people who live in Vancouver appear like they are suckers.
A lot of what you write about and take photos of makes Montreal look like a pretty bleak place to live these days.
Almost all the things that people who live in Montreal or used to live in the city seem to write about are the good old days. Very rarely does anyone say they would love to move back to Montreal.
Freezing in the winter and the high humidity in the summer is manageable when one is younger. Not so much when people get on in years.
If that's you bag, good luck with that.
Thanks for the note Colin. Montreal is not a perfect city. I have lived in both places as well and did not like Vancouver much. Too small, too rainy, lacking in urban buzz (I was young at the time, admittedly).But to each their own. In terms of numbers, Montreal's median multiple (real estate-wage ratio) is about half that of Vancouver, which means that Montrealers can afford those car payments, groceries and other finer things in life. In recent months Montreal has undergone something of a boom with a $500 million project being built in Laval and a $1B project set for the South Shore as well as the giant Royalmount Mall coming near Decarie. While I like walking on the beach and skipping stones as much as the next guy, Montrealers can fly south for a week to the Caribbean for a few hundred bucks anytime to do that. I am not saying that you are wrong or stupid to live in Vancouver but it's not something that I would opt to do.
ReplyDeleteKristian...I don't live in Vancouver. I've lived on Vancouver Island for the past 12 years, the last 8 years just outside of Nanaimo. Nice pace here and all the amenities. Not a great place for young people wanting to get ahead but a nice spot for older folks in retirement. We used to go to Mexico for a bit every winter but got tired of it. Bad food, too many hucksters, and just too noisy. Not sure where you got going to the Caribbean for a few hundred bucks? A week there will cost each person at least 1500 bucks.
ReplyDeleteI've done Cuba for $300 a couple of times ... I am sure it's more now but you can still get cheap charters, loads of them leave from here.
ReplyDeleteas someone who lives in san francisco now, i'd love to return to montreal. the city has a wonderful, affordable quality of life. and if the comparison is between montreal and vancouver, it's an incomprehensible comparison: vancouver is too boring to live for more than the time it takes to hit the dozen or so of its best restaurants.
ReplyDeletealso, the old cuba deals out of montreal (i went with a roommate once, i think back in fev 2011) for 165 each, including flight and hotel for 4 days. but i think that since those dark times (financial crisis + no u.s. tourists like today) are past and it's much more pricey now.
I've lived in Vancouver for 35 years and if not for my BC born wife would move back to Montreal in a heartbeat. Vancouver is BORING and not a fun place to live. I grew up in Montreal in the late 50's and 60's and would have to say it was a very exciting time to live there. Expo 67 and all the nightlife. Not so sure it is quite the same as then but still the greatest city in this country.
ReplyDeleteBTW like the new layout!
ReplyDeleteQuebec has been a have not province for years. It can’t support itself. In 2013-2014 it received a total of 7.8 billion dollars in transfer payments from BC, Alberta, Saskatchewan, and Newfoundland. House prices are based on supply and demand. My nephew in Ste.Therese had his house on the market for over a year and didn’t sell it. It is hard not to notice the number of boarded up businesses in Montreal. This isn’t a sign of a thriving economy. You say that there are some big investments in buildings underway in Montreal. Hotel workers and mall workers make lousy money and big malls drive smaller retail stores out of business. You are the one who wrote that tourism has diminished considerably in Montreal over the past number of years.
ReplyDeleteThis is just reality. I’m not thrilled that that is the way things are in Montreal. I would like to see the city thrive and not need the transfer payments.
Yes Vancouver is an expensive place to live but it isn’t just about Chinese investors. There is a limited area where houses can be built. The mountains and the water shed are to the north, the ocean is to the west, and the American border is just a ½ hour south of the city. You do know that Vancouver is usually recognized as one of the 10 prettiest cities in the world?
2 people that wrote to you claim Vancouver is a boring city. That’s news to a lot of us. The city has always had a thriving nightlife. A lot of single NHL hockey players over the years have considered Vancouver to be “Party City”. Many of them have hung out at The Roxy. There are a lot more good restaurants in Vancouver than a dozen.
Vancouver has a big gay pride parade every year. A number of other countries compete in fireworks events at night in the summer at English Bay. There are Greek and Caribbean days.
Life is what you make of it no matter where you live. I’d like all the money back I spent in bars in Vancouver when I was younger. I did a lot of skiing up at Whistler back then. It has the longest runs in North America. I played golf and tennis all around the city. We rollerbladed and biked along the seawall in Stanley Park with my kids. We sat out in the sun at Kits Beach. We hiked up in Lynn Canyon. I did the Grouse Grind once. Years later I joined a sailing club.
My kids grew up in Richmond, a suburb of Vancouver. It was always a nice walk down to Steveston Village for fish and chips on the pier and seeing all the fishing boats. My kids went to great schools and were in French Emmersion so you know I’m not anti-French. My son played hockey at a local arena that had 8 rinks. We bought fresh local fruit and vegetables at an outdoor market nearby.
I owned a business in Vancouver and it thrived for many years. I had some great clients. I knew a lot of interesting and successful people.
I fell in love with Vancouver Island over 40 years ago and always knew I would retire here. I’m not alone. The island is crawling with retirees from Alberta and people from back east.
So…crap on Vancouver or BC all you want. For those that think Vancouver is boring I’m sorry a brass band doesn’t pass by their house every two days. There is no reason to have a boring life no matter where you live. Expo 67 was almost 50 years ago by the way. Times have changed….everywhere. The neon lights are now a distant memory.
Lastly. Montreal isn’t the only city that has an interesting past. Most ex Montrealers who came out to Vancouver years ago can tell you. I’m lucky. I have fond memories of both cities.
It is never a nice thing to portray some of your fellow countrymen as suckers. It kind of smacks of Donald Trump.
Tourism bounced back. City is growing fast. It's even sorta booming. Oil price drop means west will wane while east will wax with manufacturing and lower dollar.
ReplyDeleteI'm a Vancouver Island native who went to McGill and ended up in Montreal for 8 years in the 80s. Vancouver is almost unrecognisable from the early 90s. I heard they cleaned up the East End in recent years, but that's still the worst neighbourhood I've seen in my life, including Asia and the Caribbean.
ReplyDeleteHardcore druggies are so much more obvious in Vancouver, and on the west coast generally than further east. My French girlfriend was in shock after walking a few blocks of Main and Hastings (aka Pain and Wastings) in broad daylight. Not a shop open in sight, just staggering zombie smack heads.
There's also a far more macho, frat jock/ brawny hick edge to Vancouver. I saw more bar brawls in 8 months in Vancouver than the 8 years I lived in Montreal. Even in the shittiest dives I used to drink in on the Lower Main in the 80s like Le Bifteck, you wouldn't be likely to see any physical nastiness every weekend.
Vancouver is just a very different pace of life. It's a bitch if you don't drive. Notoriously hard to meet people. The lack of sunlight for weeks in the winter sometimes as hard on the soul s the rip your face off coldest days in quebec.
There is just a certain coldness to Vancouver, a lack of something that Seattle and other American west coast cities have. I don't know what percentage of the city was born elsewhere, but the massive growth in the 90s and since makes it a foreign city for me, an expat from Canada since 1991.
Montreal in the 80s was ridiculously cheap, as was my tuition. The last flat I had on Hutchison in Outremont with beautiful hardwood floors was about $250 each. Vancouver has always been pricey, even compared to Toronto. The problem with so many of my friends still there is that they've gotten away with semi-mook lives since the 80s and the city suddenly is nowhere near as cheap. Gotta start sorting your career shit out in your early 50s.
This just in:
ReplyDeletehttps://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/b-c-premier-says-rules-aim-end-pure-180035871.html
About time!
Greed is NOT good!
And the horror story continues unabated:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.bbc.com/news/business-36369108
I lived in Montreal from '62 to '91
ReplyDeleteTransferred to Vancouver and never liked it,
Moved away in 2003 and never looked back.
BORING!
Unfriendly!
Everyone is like a stranger; only people you make friends with, if you're lucky, are those who were not born and bred there.Go to the bar and people are COLD! Not like Montreal! If your not in the clique than you're not welcome. Bar fights over nothing. Say hi to a girl and she looks the other way or gets mad and pouts.
Depressing drizzle of rain for sometimes 30 days straight. Depressing!
Great place to commit suicide!
You cannot BUY even a POS tear down house, let alone a condo in the worst part of town unless you make great money!
I have travelled across Canada and the world to some extent.
Vancouver is absolutely the most over rated city on earth!
Good riddance Vancouver!