The southern half of the downtown block just east of the old Forum has been rebuilt, as seen in this photo taken in April by Vanatox of the skyscraper discussion group. The new buildings might look drab, but it's a good turn for the area, which had long lain in ruin as one of the city's most tragic enigmas of failed downtown retail.The southern half of the block surrounded by Closse, Chomedey, Ste. Catherine and de Maisonneuve was subject to chronic degradation, dilapidation and decline which started even before the Canadiens abandoned the neighbourhood in 1996 to play their games a few blocks east.
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| The old block in its last days. |
Bronfman had gobbled up the property in the early 90s under a variety of assumed identities, which is the only way to go because if one of the vendors gets wind that you are assembling a big piece of land, vendors will raise their price just to hold you hostage. One of them actually did just that, going backing out of his original deal, much to the frustration of the Bronfman team.
I spent a lot of time on the block in my formative years, as my father lived there (#5) and owned the parking lot (#1) where I worked as a teen. Here's is a roundup of what I know, the numbers correspond to the image above.
1-The old Parc Forum Park was a 140-space lot which earned a lot of cash profit during hockey games. My father purchased it in the late 50s after making his big Nuns' Island deal, immediately demolishing the Navy League building. In my teens I worked there after school from 3-6 p.m. weekdays and did my homework there in the little booth, as I oversaw the quiet afternoon period. I was held up twice by robbers, not really the greatest experience.I met several Montreal Canadiens' players and staff there including Claude Mouton, (I once guarded the Stanley Cup that was stuffed into the trunk of his champagne-coloured Cadillac Seville), Jean Beliveau and Bob Gainey.
Later on, Donald K. Donald bought the Moustache and rebuilt it but during construction it was revealed that the builders had come about an inch too far onto my father's property. DKD offered to compensate my dad for the lost inch but my father forced them to rebuild.
My dad would watch over the parking lot from the balcony of his home at 1430 Chomedey and would sometimes yell at people through an electric bullhorn. He took great pride in his ability to yell in a ferocious manner. If someone was urinating on the property he'd scare them off and participate in other such drunken late-night conflict-oriented shenanigans.
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| The Texan restaurant did brisk business at this corner location |
2-The Texan restaurant was a longtime mainstay at the corner, run by a Greek named George, who didn't talk much. The walls were lined with cheap colour photo snaps of famous people who had dined there, which I'd be more curious to look at now then I was then. When we'd close the parking lot, we'd sometimes still have drivers' keys, so we'd leave a note on the car directing them to pick the keys up at the cash of the Texan, so they were good neighhbours. I don't recall ever actually eating there however.
3-East of the Texan sat a series of small shops, bars and restaurants. Next to the Texan was an old-style brasserie, where Doug Harvey would get hammered and then drive home. Sometimes I'd help him navigate his big car (they were all big back then) out of the narrow laneway. Bob Gainey brought a teammate, maybe Bill Nyrop, to that tavern to celebrate his first-ever NHL goal.
Then towards the east there was a Harvey's which stuck it out for many years in the later period.
Prior tothat there was a large, sometimes-bustling magazine store called International News where a kindly old Jewish guy worked the cash sharing stories of how his wife left him and so forth.
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| The Clay Oven building was one of the first to get abandoned. |
Then to the east, there was a barber shop with sweet Polish girls to snip your locks, a laundrymat and a couple of other small shops, which were all fairly well maintained until quite late in the game when the block was largely boarded up and inebriated natives would sit outside begging in front of the plywood.
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| The long-abandoned Seville theatre was long a symbol of Montreal's decline. |
There was a little greasy spoon at the corner, inside the Seville building, that closed probably in the late 70s called Le Gros Jo or something. It served the cheap breakfasts.
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| My father bought the beautiful old house on the right in the 60s, renting out rooms, eventually just living there with his third wife. |
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| John Bell, dad and me spreading gravel |
My father bragged that he had nicked some land from the city by illegally expanding his parking lot onto the laneway, but he said that the acquired rights made him the proper owner.






A block or so east of the Montreal Forum on the same side of St. Catherine Street there was a small grocery store that I believe was called the Forum Market. It was owned by a guy named Bernstein whose family lived in NDG on Hingston Avenue.
ReplyDeleteInternational News was a great place if you liked the smell of printer's ink and pre-internet news from all over.
ReplyDeleteThat's a flash back..yes, the smell
Deleteisn't "his first son from another marriage, Colin Gravenor Jr" your brother?
ReplyDeleteDepends how you define brother.
ReplyDeleteOn the south side of St. Catherine was a snack bar whose sign is still there called Pataterie Supreme. It closed in the early 90's I believe.
ReplyDeleteThanks for the recollections Kristian! Fascinating stuff!
ReplyDeleteThe last film I saw at the Seville was "Gimme Shelter"--the 1969 Rolling Stones concert at that California raceway which ended in an audience member getting stabbed to death. End of an era, too, as rock went into a relative decline in the '70s.
ReplyDeleteIn hindsight, of course, the closure of the Forum was a big mistake--perhaps even a jinx--as the Canadiens have, of course, never won a Stanley Cup in the
new Molson-Bell Centre.
A further note: the eastern side of Cabot Square shown in the photo originally had a convenient sheltered passenger platform when west end-bound busses like the 102, etc. started rolling from there in 1956 when the streetcars were removed from service.
The platform is long gone and, as shown in the photo, it serves now only as a bus parking area.
By the way, as many of us already know, that Metro station in Cabot is a dreary, dirty place, often plagued by drunken, scuffling derelicts. Apparently the police are going to step up security.
We shall see.
Great reminiscence.... Encore... A truly storied city block
ReplyDeleteHeh. The Seville. As it happens, when we opened down here, a few years after the Seville closed, we got their old phone number, and for about ten years we'd get the odd phone call, asking what was showing that night. My invariable answer was "Rocky Horror, full costume". Someone (a local Rocky participant)once told me he actually saw some feckless moron in Eddie togs lurking about the front of the boarded up theater after one of those calls. I still vaguely miss International News. I think they moved to Toronto maybe 30 years ago, and their Yonge Street location just wasn't the same. They used to have the back section of the store cordoned off with plywood sheets on Sundays- it was all bookshelves, and to have it open meant they'd be classified as a bookstore and subject to a fine for violating some city by-law.
ReplyDeleteAt least Moe's "Casse Croute de Coin" is still operating (or was the last time I passed the corner of Closse and de Maisonneuve). When did Closse become "Lambert Closse", anyways?
I remember the Harvey's from when I first moved here in '03. I think I only wen't in there once. There are few things as depressing as a fast food restaurant on it's last legs. I'm pretty sure the last operating business in that building was a fairly decent Indian restaurant that had a buffet.
ReplyDeleteAs someone below mentioned, the only place you missed was "Casse Croute de Coin" which is still very much open and is probably my favorite place in the city for a lazy Saturday morning breakfast.
St Cat between Guy and Atwater is still a pretty weird strip. There are several businesses there that remain open year after year although I have never seen a single human enter or exit them. The pawn shop, the weird comic book store with the junk computers from the 90's in the window the "Cabine de Poulet" etc. The cockroach infested Fauborg always seems like it's a couple days from being boarded up. That weird Swiss restaurant that looks like a time capsule from the 70's. Who's keeping that place open?
Regarding the Fauborg...
ReplyDeleteI always used to wonder why that building was constantly being renovated year after year for no obvious reason. It seemed
to be a mystery.
I do remember it opened in 1987 but that the owners were apparently already bankrupt! There was an excellent bakery at the east end of the complex and the food court was pretty popular and busy. The top floor above the food courts was, I believe reserved for other businesses but I don't remember for exactly who. Not sure if the movie theatre is still there. Probably not: I'd almost forgotten it!
Over the years, however, it seemed as if the new owners (whoever they were) were hell-bent on disrupting the remaining tenants by boarding up entire sections of the place with the so-called "renovations", forcing out what were originally
popular restaurants, the Felix and Norton cookie place, the bookshops, that aforementioned bakery, and so on.
On weekends, I would often eat at the food court with its many choice ethnic dishes, but slowly but surely, even they dried up and vanished. The place became almost like a ghost town. I could never understand why students from the nearby Concordia Campus didn't "adopt" the place for its many fast-food restaurants due to its very convenient proximity, but now that the cat is out of the bag regarding the cockroach infestation, it's no surprise after all. Must be pretty serious to be suggesting demolition!
Of course, other shopping complexes in the Montreal area have also turned into either abject failures or the dumping grounds for flea markets and close-out shops.
Decarie Square, for example, opened in the late '70s early '80s to great fanfare with its high-profile Hypermarche food market touted as the latest thing in speedy-checkout and modernity, but it quickly bombed miserably and the entire mall itself eventually became run down despite its convenient location, ample parking and being near a large, basically
well-off residential neighbourhood.
Cavendish Mall originally with its very own Eaton's and Canadian Tire (both now long gone) likewise has become a failure, the main reason presumably being the neverending farce concerning the on-again, off-again extension of Cavendish Blvd.
into Ville St. Laurent and beyond--a political football going back to the 1950s.
Le Bazar shopping centre on Cote Vertu with its very busy Price-Costco, Toy R Us, etc. used to be very accessible by public transit, until for some never-explained reason the bus terminus there was itself terminated.
A rare semi-success has been the Cote des Neiges Plaza which opened in 1968 after years of expectation. Many top-notch stores
had been in there as well, later to close down, but in the 1990s a renovated theatre complex, thriving Canadian Tire, and
Zeller's (replaced now by a newly-opened Wal-mart), plus many ethnic-run thrift stores and services seems to have allowed the place to rise from the doldrums and thrive despite itself. Even today, the infrastructure is being upgraded.
As a rule, a successful mall should have a bank, a pharmacy, and a post office to serve those basic needs, but the aforementioned complexes never seemed to keep all of these as tenants--if they ever did at all.
As the owner of " the weird comic book store with the junk computers from the 90's in the window", I'll tell ya: We are not a " the weird comic book store". What we are is a weird bookstore that got overwhelmed by comics some time in the early 90's.
ReplyDeleteIt's just all us guys who work there that are weird. There are big dead flat spots in any day, especially Mondays and Tuesdays, but there are times when the joint really bops.
Unless our eternal bellowing at each other gets on your nerves, it's still a great place to shop (at least according to our customers, at least some of which are human).
We're the 4th oldest establishment on the block, after Le Paris, Star of India, and the barber shop. We opened here the day before the gigantic rainstorm of 1987.
The Swiss restaurant you speak of is Alpenhaus, just around the corner on St.Marc. It's a favourite of many Shaughnessy Village residents, and while it's not my cup of tea, it's still going strong. Nick Auf der Maur used to regularly extoll its virtues. I'm not sure if that was a valid opinion, or just the natural prejudice of a guy who practically made a profession out of being Swiss.
I still miss Nick, he was always entertaining.
Nick's landlord, Ron Seltzer, the Downtowner newspaper publisher, was a really interesting guy who, as I recall, died of a heart attack while helping someone dig out of the ice storm in '98. There's always been lots of "characters" around the neighbourhood, from the genteel Mr.George of Argo, to a fellow named Carl, a pretty tough guy who used to do casual work for Ronnie at the shoe repair place next door. Carl had a neat little sideline: Every once in a while Montreal would get a little too "warm" for him, and he'd disappear for a few months to visit his brother who lived somewhere near Sept Isles. One time he plucked a scrawny twisted little sapling out of a crack in the rocks up there, potted it, and showed it to a florist friend when he returned here. Thus was born a proliferation of "bonsai" availability amongst some Montreal florists. Just find a rocky area, and yank 'em out. Free bonsai.
Now if only we could get rid of these chickens that keep coming in telling jokes. Know how a chicken tells a joke in our store? They jost look around and say "BOOK book book book book. Boook book book book."
The frogs say "Reddit. Reddit. Reddit."
I think I've long outlived my welcome for this time around, so fare thee well.
Such fond memories of Mr.George, bought many books at Argo.
DeleteGrew up on Tupper St. from 75 till 85.
From the Clay Oven, to Harley Davidson to the Cock & Bull (great place to play darts), Towers Resturant (Owner always gave me a box of Smarties 😊) to The A&P grocery store, the Indian resturant was a awesome place. The bar in the back had such characters and a great Rugby Team.
You have brought back such memories of that time.
Great read!!
I am totally blown away with some of the very accurate memories on here.
ReplyDeleteFrom the late 40's until the mid 60's my father owned a company called The Noramic Company in Montreal. He was a flooring contractor. Over the years he moved his office a number of times.
I found his company on the net through the Canadian Jewish Review where he advertised for a number of years including 1949.
At one time his office was on Aylmer Street. In 1955 his office was at 1475 Crescent Street before they converted the buildings to other uses like The Winston Churchill Pub at 1459 Crescent Street. I remember the copies of some of The Group of Seven on his office walls.
Later, in the 60s he had an office in the old Fort Building in the basement. The Fort Building was about 4 stories high and was at the corner of Fort and St. Catherine. It had a dirt parking lot.
Fantastic article, thanks Kristian.
ReplyDelete"Weird comic book guy" I like your stories, come back for more.
While we're at it, anyone has the story on "nice guys consultants" at St-Marc and Sherbrooke? That name always struck me as silly. However they took off the plate recently as they are turning 1910 Sherbrooke west into high-end condos (Gramercy).
http://instagram.com/p/PLVFT/
Thanks for the memories!
ReplyDeleteMan, I enjoyed that stretch! The bar was called the Clay Aven, and I partied there. The Seville was great, saw many a flic.
My friedns really liked, lived in would be correct, the LZ pinball arcade across the street.
Merci!
Do you remember Rona?
Deletei used to hang at the Klay avn ,even served beer upstairs after the indian restaurant closed,yeah they were a motley lot alright,i think i remember your dad taking photos of the a holes doing stupid and criminal activities,i too lived in the area for years,perhaps you recall me,tall curly haired street musician ,always carrying a guitar without a case,played in westmount square often,and under the seville sign after it closed
ReplyDeleteMarc??? My mom, sheila??
Deletevery nice to find this piece! i keep coming across your site when investigating various montreal ephemera that crossed my mind. i'm a former montrealer who was born and raised therein the 60s and 70s and left in the mid-80s. only going back for the first time in a long time a few years ago. i miss it and can see myself moving back one day.
ReplyDeletein any case i lived in an apartment on the corner of chomedey and ste. catherine, with 4 pads, mine had the balcony and roof space facing the mountain and on top of the laundry below (which i believe is still there) my apt was on top of what was then dunkin donuts (open 24 hrs which was handy! there were times when i would wake up parched and go down in my pyjamas to get a coke .. bliss!) this was in 1985. my friends and i went to rep films at the seville, always dug International News, i thought the burgers were great at the diner on the corner of the seville building. some fond memories of living there. it was sad to see the whole block boarded up when i made it back a few years ago. when there was a hockey game or a concert the neighbourhood was abuzz! i snuck into the forum and watched the habs practice! i climbed over the gates inside the main ticket window area when nobody was looking, and watched the practice from high up seats so as to not be conspicuous. i noticed a new skinny goalie who turned out to be patrick roy. when the practice was over somehow i gathered the gall to walk into the habs dressing room and stand against the wall by the door just as though i was with someone. eventually it was ron flockhart sitting nearby who said "Who's the kid?" at which i turned and walked out. i would often go into concerts that were near the end as folks were leaving, i'd go in the door they were coming out and see the encore if i happened to be walking by at the time. the forum opened a bar on the corner where one could watch the game going on inside on closed circuit tv which was not being televised outside! this was a boon! it was through this bar a scalper led me and my friends when we gave him $10 each to get into the Pretenders/Iggy Pop concert. so many memories. i recall seeing a hendrix tribute band called Fire at the Moustache. i knew paul harwood from Frank Marino & Mahogany Rush who lived in the area, saw him play a the moustache too. i remember the parc forum park lot of course. i could go on, the mr. sub across the street and the arcade. later a wendy;s was there, i recall standing in line behind guy carbonneau there. sad it's all boring condos and the like. thanks again for the story kristian.
One of the scalpers from that time, still is at it today, only this time at the bell.center! (Chinese dude)
DeleteI was a waiter at Norm's Moustache in 1970. Made some good money there and it was the best time of my life.
ReplyDeleteI waitressed..as well as worked coatcheck at the Moustache in '69 and '70. Many gond memories.. Some names I remember who worked there at the same time Eric Vienish, Mike Stacey,Doug Muncey,a British girl Vicki who sold tkts. Then there was Gus, Stanley, Mark..and of course Mr. Walsh who was the manager..He was older and always had a cigar..a real character..
DeleteFriday 8-14-20...WOW! So glad I came across this and that I read it down to the end. I worked at the Moustache too! In 1970, '71 and I think early '72. My name is Barbara.. I started in the coat check..but I also was barmaid from time to time..in the Lounge AND in the front bar as well. Mike Stacey and I hung out together in London for a few months in '72. Eric I knew well..sadly he died in '96 in LA..from cancer I think (he was in close touch w/my family there. I remember Vicky well..she was a doll..I can still see her face..we always went out to Moe's after work..I often went to Gus's place after work to smoke and listen to music..I think Mike Stacey lived there as well before he left for London. I remember Stanley, Doug Muncey..Mark and I LOVED Mr Walsh (always w/a cigar and very nattily dressed..a good guy..a real character)...Remember the guy who worked the stage lights there? I THINK his name was Jean Pierre? and he was REALLY good w/those lights! He was a tiny little guy..very soft spoken..a real sweet person...I can see ALL their faces so clearly. I live in NYC..(the Lower East Side)..This is actually my 40th year here..If anyone has anything to add I guess post it here..NOT to the gmail address that I see below...Barbara
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