As many of the recent photos from 1938 have been in a West end theme, I will guess that these two photos are taken at the Westminster overpass over the CPR North of Parkside.
There is still a power transmission line at that location on more modern towers.
Westminster crossed the CPR North of Cote St. Luc at a level crossing thru 1960.
When we moved to NDG in the Fifties, Westminster was mostly open North of the CPR overpass.
In 1948-1950, CPR constructed their new St. Luc Hump Yard at the North end of WM, with what became the last new Roundhouse in Canada to service steam locomotives.
Adjacent to the roundhouse was a steam plant with three coal-fired boilers and a tall brick smokestack topped with a metal gallery and red lights as the stack was not far from the approach path for aeroplanes landing at Dorval.
The steam plant was used for steam heating and pre-warming steam locomotives before they were lit up for service. Saving time and strain on the boilers.
We could see the smokestack from our house in NDG.
On the North wall of the powerhouse was a large steam whistle ( still there on my last visit in 2008 ) which was used to demark shift changes for employees in the yard and shops.
As children we were told to be home at a certain whistle, as it was audible all over the West end.
The whistle was silenced in the Sixties as CSL residents complained?
Other factories has whistles, too, and we listened for them in the morning to get moving for school or work.
We were also told to be home 'When the streetlights came on, Or Else!!' the streetlights then being controlled manually from Hydro Quebec on Cote St. Paul Rd. just West of the swing bridge across the Lachine Canal to Church. ( Now Muzohotel. )
Some nights the lights did not come on until well after dark and a big fuss arose when parents realized they had been 'Screwed'.
( For the TRUE nitpicker the Brick two-story building on the S.W. corner of St. Pierre and Notre Dame where the Bascule Bridge over the Lachine Canal is was once a Tramways Substation on the Lachine 91 line.
The downstream bridge was built in 1959. HUGE lineups there when canallers were passing thru and CNR was running trains that way to Dorval.
Another ex Tramways substation can be found at 11570 Notre Dame EAST. S.W. corner 2nd. Ave. )
On the Northwest corner of Cote St. Luc and Westminster in the Fifties was a greasy spoon-type restaurant named Galardos?? where later Autobus Routes Westminster 162 and Cote St. Luc 101 crossed.
Both the 162 and the 101 were extra fare after crossing the CPR?? and the 162 had a dark Blue transfer for a time.
We ate there, Good Fries! into the Sixties.
This restaurant had a multitude of those Yellow 'bug lights' on the soffits and was visible from afar before CSL was built up.
Farms still lined CSL from Adalbert thru Westminster into 1961/62.
The CPR underpass on CSL at Adalbert was built in 1964? there was a sign at the previous level crossing stating something like 'Four have been killed at this crossing, will YOU be next??'
Pedestrian would dash out behind the end of one train and get hit by another on the next track over.
Dayliner Rail Diesel Cars were silent, FAST and DEADLY!
As for daybreak factory whistle blasts, I do remember hearing those up until sometime in the late 70s coming from the TMR industrial park area or possibly from Armstrong Cork on Decarie Blvd. Haven't heard them in years.
By the way, Armstrong has mothballed that long-established complex until further notice as the result of an economic decision by the HQ in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
You are correct, MP&I, about the extra fare charged for some MTC bus routes during the old "zone" transfer days.
Not sure when the Cote St. Luc 101route was an actual separate zone, however, since I have a 101 non-coloured transfer in my collection --if that makes any difference. Route 162 Westminster is blue, Lachine 191-192 is pink, St. Michel 67 is orange, etc.--for those who care about such things.
I well-remember the CSL railway level-crossing near Adalbert, although near its final days the sign read something like "35 have been killed at this crossing..."!
In the late 50s we kids would stand next to the CPR line near the streetcar trestle south of Blue Bonnets race track and wait for the trams trundling over, the frequent Mikado-type steam locos, the odd new diesel in their grey and maroon livery, and wave at the yellow Sylvester maintenance-crew, track-cars which we called "putt-putts" due to the sound they made. Haven't seen those in years!
Needless to say, we'd also put pennies on the track and pick them up after they'd be flattened by the clanking, chuffing steam locomotives and diesels, the drivers of which would always wave back at us, and yes, those Dayliners then enroute to Quebec City and back seemed to appear out of nowhere with their "revolving" headlights, thus we always called them the "sneaky trains"!
Today, BEWARE the fast and sneaky Via Rail passenger trains which currently run to Central Station crossing Rue de Courcelles at a potentially deadly spot!
Anyone on the southwest side attempting to walk or cycle north over that first track just beyond the old building on the corner could so easily be hit by a silent, eastbound train--no warning horn blasts! Wham--it's all over!
Remember those teen graffiti vandals who were killed awhile back in St. Henri? Same sneaky train!
A large portion of what is today western NDG from approximately Belmore to Connaught was originally owned by a farmer by the name of Henry Mills whose farm house was located on Cote St. Luc Road near Ashdale Avenue.
Later, during the 1940`s, a notorious gambling joint, The Mount Royal Bridge Club, existed in a farm house at 7440 Cote St. Luc Rd.
Presumably because it was then technically beyond Montreal`s city limits or whatever bylaws existed back then, it was tolerated for years; even regularly patronized by off-duty police, politicians, and well-known high rollers until finally closed down by the authorities and demolished. A school exists near the site today.
The railway marshalling yards were opened in the early 50s and even until the late 70s I remember hearing the loud bang of railcars in the wee hours of the morning as they were being hooked-up and merged into trains. That hump must have been removed since its been decades since I`ve heard those bangs. No doubt CSL residents must have complained about it for years!
Today, however, I still hear late night-early morning diesel engine horn blasts from those railyards! What`s the story on that, I wonder? I thought it be juveniles trespassing onto the engines, pulling the cords and running away like hell, or are rail workers permitted to test-blast horns at 3 a.m. during their shifts? How dumb is that?
From the persistent sound of it, though, it sure seems like those are CN or CP crews doing multiple horn-testing in the early hours of the morning. A mystery within a conundrum.
There is, in fact, a law actually prohibiting locomotive engineers from giving the "two long, one short, one long" horn blast at level crossings within the city limits; this presumably following decades of complaints by local residents constantly being woken up.
This anti-noise pollution law may possibly include ships in the harbour and canals, ships and tugs which used to create a 24-hour cacaphony of the kind heard in so many noir-type movies filmed on the waterfronts of North America.
A couple of years ago, however, I did indeed hear such a prohibited level-crossing horn blast during the daytime at the Wilderton Avenue crossing just south of Jean Talon. Must have been a rookie engineer who didn't know the rules!
An 'American' from the Maritimes on it's last trip on an excursion, November 1959.
There is another photo of this engine and it's train stopped for photos under the steel Tramways overpass at Decarie in November '59, the trolley wire already gone.
I spent 25 years with CPR, from the end of steam thru Unit Coal Trains with Slave Units and big GEs from Erie, PA.
Don't think I ever rode the 101? Used all the other thru 108 from time to time.
The 103 Monkland used to turn on a loop laid with cobblestones just North of Somerled on the West side of Grand. I suspect the front walk of the church now at that location reused the loop for it's front walk, or at least the cobblestones?
Unless it has recently been repaved, traces of the streetcar tracks can be seen curving West from Grand onto Somerled at the intersection.
There was once a wye at Grand and Monkland, the first end of the line thru 1934, then moved to Walkley and Somerled.
I cashed my first paycheque from BTCo. at the Royal Bank once at Monkland and Grand on the N.E. corner.
Years ago they used rollers and timbers to move a small two-story store on from the N.E. corner of Somerled and Prince of Wales across from the Steinberg's parking lot and put up a bank instead. 1954?
The store wound up on the North side of Fielding at 6815? next to the cleaners, home to Rocky Montana Fruits midway between King Edward and Rosedale.
On CSL road West of Adalbert there used to be a small creek beneath CSL just West from where Robert Burns is. ( Robert Burns was used with a temporary level crossing next to the Patricia Building when the underpass was being built. )
We used to get drunk in the R.B. Taverne then run outside and wave to the crews on the trains. A thirsty crew would sometimes stop for a minute or two as someone dashed across for smokes.
There used to be a slot car racing emporium in one of the business next to RBT., and, later, a fire burned much of the complex.
There was a farm house on CSL where Ashdale is now, surrounded by derelict Orange bulldozers and such, the farm extending way back and beyond the CPR from Ballantyne Jct. to St. Luc Jct. at Rosedale.
The house was stucco and had a parking lot and looked as if it had had a commercial history beyond the farm years.
We never went near it as all sorts of scuzzy types were looting the pipes and wires from within.
Behind the house was a gravel race track oval with small bridges made from timbers over the meandering creek which angled from under the CPR in a culvert 1916/1954 behind the house at approximately where Adalbert meets Baily.
At the culvert location a curved CPR spur headed North to a loading ramp which may have held 8 boxcars, the steel just lifted in 1959.
There was a low flat-roofed house adjacent and we explored it, oil heat.
At night it's lights could be seen South on O'Bryan at Chester.
Never have found a map showing the spur and have not ever found out what they loaded there.
The road entrance to this house was thru gates in the fence between the CSL Shopping Centre and West Broadway, this road crossing the CPR loop to LaSalle TWICE before the houses built inside the loop c. 1959.
The gates were still in the fence the last time I looked.
Other more pleasant farms with nice set backs populated CSL on the North Side West from Ashdale.
No one has yet said if the overpass photos presented by Mr. Gravenor are on Westminster?
Yes, it was Galardos. There was a referendum n CSL about the underpass on Westminster south of Wavell, around 1961. Just south of the Westminster hump there was a coal dealer, H Y Brydges, and they would load coal from the train tracks. There was also a large pnd there till about 1960. One branch of the Little St Pierre River ran on the border between Montreal West and Cote St Luc. It crosses Westminster at the border: the land dips and you can see the path the water must have taken.
Once we were old enough to be trusted, we were allowed to roam at will, and NDG and environs was 'ours'.
We walked everywhere as kids, and, once we had our bicycles, we rode all that much further.
If you were not at home, you could not be Dragooned into house work or digging weeds.
By parental decree we were 'confined' more or less to that area circumscribed by the CPR from Hampstead Tower, the Hump and West to CPR Ballantyne Jct. and then into Montreal West Station.
We were NOT to cross Decarie to the East, AT ALL!!!!
But, we still found lots to do.
Walked many of the tributaries of the Mighty Riviere St. Pierre drainage. Built rafts east of 'The Monitor's' new printing plant on the-then end of Kildare out where Cavendish now runs and explored downstream thru the Wentworth Golf Course, the flats back of the Northern Electric Cable Plant on 2/17 and, on weekends, thru Century Metals on the Canal just upstream from the Bascule Bridge.
Old home movie footage shows me at the bow of a Canaller tied up for scrap, a steam crane adjacent ready to do it's macabre work. Halco boat?
CNR scrapped over 120 steam locomotives at Turcot Yards after they moved operations out to the New Montreal yard next to CPR St Luc. We followed the St. Pierre thru there, also, and watched more dissection.
Our parents did not know about the short cut thru Sortin Yards next to the Golf Course and how we would ride our bikes out to the Dairy Queen on 2/17.
This led to a bike trip to Dorval one day, stopping to watch trains at old Grovehill Station.
The Telegrapher is using a wood hoop to deliver Train Orders to the Engineer. A shorter hoop is hanging on a hook on corner of building with Orders for the Conductor on the Caboose, which is lower.
Tracks between freight and Yard Engine with caboose curve left thru to Westminster level crossing and St. Luc Jct. at Rosedale.
Tracks behind Yard Engine travel East to Sortin Station by golf course and thru to Montreal West Station.
West end of Sortin Yard out of frame to right.
The single-track CNR from Turcot West at Raphael Ruffos Motel at the bottom of Brock cross right to left for St. Laurent, the CNR Electric Lines from Central Station at EJ/Gohier and on to Joliette via Point Aux Trembles.
On another excursion, we violated the Decarie Wall and rode all the way to Miron et Freres Quarry way up in the North end, exploring Mile End and Outremont area.
In NDG if we were nearby when we heard a train approaching, we would RUSH to the overpass on Westminster and await it's coming, clouds of smoke, cinders and noise.
Just lovely! They still whistled for CSL road by West Broadway. CPR steam bells were wonderful.
A great sound at night, when whistles communicated, before Radio.
Coal, fire, water and steam still powering our world, for a little while longer.
H. J. Brydges had some of the beat-upest, tiredest red International trucks ever seen. They also had a Public Scale where moving vans and such could be weighed empty, then full, to figure out the weight inside.
Their coal spur used to wend East almost to the Patricia Building, but, was cut back c. 1961. 'D&H Coal' orange roundel on the fence facing the passengers on passing trains.
Many Memories as we explored the West end now 60 years ago.
It was 'ours' and we 'used' it.
Before TV took hold, along with so many other distractions.
Up until only recently, it was standard procedure to rides one's bike from the west end of Cote St. Luc Rd. and then quickly trespass through the railway Sortin Yard to 12th Avenue and Norman in Lachine and then use the pedestrian overpass to reach the west side of highway 20 at 14th Avenue.
No longer, unfortunately, as that overpass was allowed to deteriorate over the years and was demolished, thus today forcing cyclists to go the long way around through Ville St. Pierre and use streets such as St. Joseph where it is less safe to ride.
Glad they eventually put a bike path from the west end of Notre Dame under the Ville St. Pierre Interchange all the way to George V and beyond--the path being where the old route 90 streetcar used to run.
Although I never witnessed the destruction of the old steam locos at Turcot, I seem to remember seeing many sittng ready for scrapping in the east end Angus Shops while gazing thgough binoculars from atop Mount Royal.
Although inefficient and polluting by today's standards, I do miss those belching, clanking monsters! I'll have to go on one of those steam excursions somewhere soon!
Regarding the required "two long, one short, one long" engineers' warning whistle at level crossings: on rare occasion in the early hours of the morning when it is dead quiet and there is a slight wind from the west, I have heard what surely must be trains whistling as they approach Route 209 and other level-crossings in Delson and St. Constant while they are either going toward or heading away from the St. Lawrence Bridge just west of the Mercier.
"We were NOT to cross Decarie to the East, AT ALL!!!!"
After the War, prior to moving to NDG, we resided on Saranac to the East of Decarie and used to walk to the streetcars at the Snowdon stop on the private right of way across Decarie between Earnscliffe and Clanranald.
As children then under 10, were told to stay away from Decarie, as it was BUSY with through traffic even then in the Forties.
At that time there was a vacant lot at the East end of Saranac which we passed thru to walk to Iona School.
Then they built the house at the end of Saranac, with a STEAM SHOVEL digging the basement, water from a hydrant, the new house facing onto Circle.
Now we had to go around thru the alley over to Ponsard, my Mother saying to stay away from the traffic on Decarie.
When we had moved to NDG, and had bicycles as we got older, my parents had to set SOME limits, and Decarie, with all it's imagined and remembered traffic dangers was it.
When we lived on Saranac we used to eat fish and chips at a little shop on Decarie at Dalou? Just lovely.
The furnace in the house on Saranac burned coke that may well have come from Brydges at Westminster, the coke for heating, and the coal for the small water heater in summer when the furnace was shut down was put into coal and coke bins thru a side window in the cellar.
Ashes were taken to the curb for pick up, after sifting for unburned fuel, out thru a side door.
Decarie and Queen Mary, looking North. Circa 1950.
Streetcars now travel to Terminus Garland, but, still have old Montreal Tramways COMPANY crest.
Creme PCC car to right is probably on Route 29, which went from Garland to Youville Square thru 1958.
At the far end of it's route, Route 29 shared the track on McGill with the M&SC cars, but, NOT the trolley wire.
As the voltages were different, two trolley wires were used. An electric switch governed movements at De La Commune, East for Tramways cars, West for M&SC cars.
M&SC car from South Shore via Victoria Bridge crossing Blacks Bridge for M&SC terminus at Mc Gill St.
My favourite streetcars were the cars in the 1200 series as shown in the Queen Mary photo, dating back to 1913, which rode and 'sounded' like streetcars. The 1277 could well be on Route 48 St. Antoine which went to Terminus Craig thru 1957.
It's a small world. I grew up on Dalou, next block over from Saranac.
I went to Iona School by way of the "shortcut" through the woods at the top of Musset (now Snowdon). When I took Ponsard, I always stopped at Forman's Stationary at Ponsard/Decarie to buy my penny candy.
I could see the back of Paul Vitas' Fish and Chip Store from my back balcony. I ate there regularly---10 cent fries and 15 cents for fish, or 25 cents for both.
Check out: http://haroldro.multiply.com/
for Dalou St. pics. Always looking for other snapshots of the neighbourhood to add to the page, especially Decarie, Saranac, Ponsard, Musset, Byron,Iona School,Macdonald/Ponsard Park, Queen Mary, Grenier, etc.
Okay, great. I'll add whatever pics you find of the neighbourhood. My email address is on the Dalou Street blog.
To show you how small a world it is:
Last year I met a fellow from Florida who happened to be in Maine, where I was during the summer. I discovered that he grew up in Snowdon, worked as a delivery boy at the grocery/butcher at the bottom of Saranac, as well as working as a pinboy at the bowling place above the Dominion store on the west side of Decarie.
Renting a duplex on Trans Island from the mid 50s, our building's furnace was fueled by coal up until 1958 when the owner switched over to gas and eventually to the purer, sulfur-smelling but less hazardous "natural gas" by Gaz Naturel, now called Gaz Metropolitain.
As kids, we used to watch with fascination the coal trucks drive up to the neighbourhood duplexes and apartment buildings which had yet to convert to gas.
The rough-looking, French-Canadian crew would wave us away as they shouted, "Baggup..baggup ..whoa!", to the driver. Then, they'd slide the moving conveyer belt to the hole in the wall and deposit the large black chunks into the furnace room.
I really believe that in our childhood naivete this is why our generation tended to "stereotype" the French as being "blue-collar" since we kids would see them more visibly in such labour--construction work in particular.
Not to imply that there is anything sinister or "wrong" about this impression, nor did we "look down" on them as many "nationalists" like to blame us for doing. It's simply what we SAW: nothing more, nothing less. As we grew up, we knew better.
Furthermore, among the other English kids and Jews, many of my close friends in the neighbourhood were French.
In those days, the only Asians we saw ran the laundries and worked in Chinese restaurants. There were a handful of black kids in my school, one of whom was my best friend and whom I tutored in reading. The first black, West Indian kid in our elementary school class of 1960 came from Grenada--the best athlete, too, for only HE could do that running, head-over-heels workhorse somersault!
In those 1950s days there were only 2 TV channels--CBFT 2 French, and CBMT 6 English, the latter of which started up in 1954 after CBFT's original, bilingual service proved unwieldy.
In 1958, a TV cable company--Rediffusion--came into the neighbourhood and we were the first to subscribe, enabling us to watch for the first time WPTZ Plattsburgh channel 5 and WCAX 3Burlington, Vermont! The second local English TV channel was, of course, channel 12, beginning in 1961.
Yes, how true it is, MP&I, that TV virtually took over our lives, and how much MORE reliant we have become to media--and now "social media", and all in the palms of our hands yet!
Well, at least we can claim to have witnessed first-hand on television the Canadiens' five great Stanley Cups in a row--all in living black & white; no helmets, no goalie face-masks, no instant-replay! The Rocket shoots...he scores!!!
Who has read Ray Bradbury's short story about the man who is walking down the street in the evening and meeting absolutely no one because they are all inside watching TV?
Well, I HAD planned to do things today, but got wound up in these interesting topics, instead.
A Mystery House on the move, where?
Who lived there?
Where did it go?
What were the respective addresses?
Which went from Odd to Even, too!
All solved thru input and solid research from many camps.
Have to give much Thanks to 'Mr. Ro.' for starting these photos!
Mr. Gravenor for allowing us to hold forth at LENGTH on one of our favorite topics, MONTREAL!
Could not been done, otherwise.
Thank You to to the Internet and all it's wonders.
Could not have been done without it.
( Could you imagine to do what we have accomplished in less than a day, even with all the verbosity, using libraries, walking, film cameras, processing and then sending photos out for opinions and input for each contributor?
Would take WEEKS, if not months even without a Strike or two somewhere. )
Brings back lots of memories of Montreal West in the 1950's and early 60's.
Factory whistles from Lachine would sound at 8 am and noon, letting us know what time it was.
My mother would check the wind direction before hanging out white sheets to dry - steam locos had a nasty habit of "darkening" anything white.
The Montreal West incinerator chimney stood for a long time after it stopped burning garbage. It had a yellow air-raid siren on it, which would sometimes go off for no apparent reason.
The 101 and 162 stopped charging extra "zone" fares after the Metro opened in 1966. There was a 101 bus stop just west of the CSL shopping centre (just before the then level crossing) which had "ZONE" written on it. You had to get off there (on a westbound bus), or you had to pay an extra fare (5 cents for kids) when you got off. The 162 was 5 cents for travelling anywhere on it.
Up until about 1958, household gas stoves were supplied by a type of "manufactured gas" which was essentially odourless and potentially hazardous. To obtain a flame atop the stove, one had to turn one of the knobs and strike a match to ignite it.
Who hasn't seen film noirs about someone turning on the gas stove without lighting a flame and committing suicide by closing all the windows and doors, or worse, trying to kill someone else and pretend it was an "accident". This actually occurred more often than you may believe!
Then gas companies around the world came up with today's so-called "natural gas" which was of a different composition and to which was added a chemical called mercaptan which creates a strong sulfur-like smell, thus warning of any gas leak. (See the Gazette of June 3, 1958, page 25 for an interesting article introducing Montreal to the new natural gas).
In addition, because with natural gas a "pilot light" is to be kept lit at all times at the bottom rear of the stove, a match is obviously no longer needed to light the oven or the grids on top.
Nevertheless, natural gas is still highly volatile and must be used with care. Leaks from cracked pipes have caused entire buildings to explode in flames causing multiple deaths and injuries, such as what occurred in the tragedy at LaSalle Heights back in 1964, for example.
In addition, using coal to feed a building's furnace, thus heating hot water tanks to circulate through the radiators and supply the hot-water taps, was of course standard procedure around the world and this method only began to diminish in a serious way following the notorious London Killer Smog of 1952 where around 4000 people died.
Hard to believe? See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog
Not sure in exactly what year the very last home or business in Montreal was heated by coal, but it couldn't have come soon enough!
I raise these perhaps mundane facts merely to remind those who may have forgotten how much we take for granted in this day and age.
Love to get comments! Please, please, please speak your mind ! Links welcome - please google "how to embed a link" it'll make your comment much more fun and clickable.
As many of the recent photos from 1938 have been in a West end theme, I will guess that these two photos are taken at the Westminster overpass over the CPR North of Parkside.
ReplyDeleteThere is still a power transmission line at that location on more modern towers.
Westminster crossed the CPR North of Cote St. Luc at a level crossing thru 1960.
When we moved to NDG in the Fifties, Westminster was mostly open North of the CPR overpass.
In 1948-1950, CPR constructed their new St. Luc Hump Yard at the North end of WM, with what became the last new Roundhouse in Canada to service steam locomotives.
Adjacent to the roundhouse was a steam plant with three coal-fired boilers and a tall brick smokestack topped with a metal gallery and red lights as the stack was not far from the approach path for aeroplanes landing at Dorval.
The steam plant was used for steam heating and pre-warming steam locomotives before they were lit up for service. Saving time and strain on the boilers.
We could see the smokestack from our house in NDG.
On the North wall of the powerhouse was a large steam whistle ( still there on my last visit in 2008 ) which was used to demark shift changes for employees in the yard and shops.
As children we were told to be home at a certain whistle, as it was audible all over the West end.
The whistle was silenced in the Sixties as CSL residents complained?
Other factories has whistles, too, and we listened for them in the morning to get moving for school or work.
We were also told to be home 'When the streetlights came on, Or Else!!' the streetlights then being controlled manually from Hydro Quebec on Cote St. Paul Rd. just West of the swing bridge across the Lachine Canal to Church. ( Now Muzohotel. )
Some nights the lights did not come on until well after dark and a big fuss arose when parents realized they had been 'Screwed'.
( For the TRUE nitpicker the Brick two-story building on the S.W. corner of St. Pierre and Notre Dame where the Bascule Bridge over the Lachine Canal is was once a Tramways Substation on the Lachine 91 line.
The downstream bridge was built in 1959. HUGE lineups there when canallers were passing thru and CNR was running trains that way to Dorval.
Another ex Tramways substation can be found at 11570 Notre Dame EAST. S.W. corner 2nd. Ave. )
On the Northwest corner of Cote St. Luc and Westminster in the Fifties was a greasy spoon-type restaurant named Galardos?? where later Autobus Routes Westminster 162 and Cote St. Luc 101 crossed.
Both the 162 and the 101 were extra fare after crossing the CPR?? and the 162 had a dark Blue transfer for a time.
We ate there, Good Fries! into the Sixties.
This restaurant had a multitude of those Yellow 'bug lights' on the soffits and was visible from afar before CSL was built up.
Farms still lined CSL from Adalbert thru Westminster into 1961/62.
The CPR underpass on CSL at Adalbert was built in 1964? there was a sign at the previous level crossing stating something like 'Four have been killed at this crossing, will YOU be next??'
Pedestrian would dash out behind the end of one train and get hit by another on the next track over.
Dayliner Rail Diesel Cars were silent, FAST and DEADLY!
Thank You.
West End vintage photos - part Two:
ReplyDeleteAs for daybreak factory whistle blasts, I do remember hearing those up until sometime in the late 70s coming from the TMR
industrial park area or possibly from Armstrong Cork on Decarie Blvd. Haven't heard them in years.
By the way, Armstrong has mothballed that long-established complex until further notice as the result of an economic decision by the HQ in Lancaster,
Pennsylvania.
You are correct, MP&I, about the extra fare charged for some MTC bus routes during the old "zone" transfer days.
Not sure when the Cote St. Luc 101route was an actual separate zone, however, since I have a 101 non-coloured transfer in my collection
--if that makes any difference. Route 162 Westminster is blue, Lachine 191-192 is pink, St. Michel 67 is orange, etc.--for those who care about such things.
I well-remember the CSL railway level-crossing near Adalbert, although near its final days the sign read something like "35 have been killed at this crossing..."!
In the late 50s we kids would
stand next to the CPR line near the streetcar trestle south of Blue Bonnets race track and
wait for the trams trundling
over, the frequent Mikado-type steam locos, the odd new diesel in their grey and maroon livery, and wave at the yellow Sylvester maintenance-crew, track-cars which we called "putt-putts" due to the sound they made. Haven't seen those in years!
Needless to say, we'd also put pennies on the track and pick them up after they'd be flattened by the clanking, chuffing steam locomotives and diesels, the drivers of which would always wave back at us, and yes, those Dayliners then enroute to
Quebec City and back seemed to appear out of nowhere with their "revolving" headlights, thus we always called them the "sneaky trains"!
Today, BEWARE the fast and sneaky Via Rail passenger trains which currently run to Central Station crossing Rue de Courcelles at
a potentially deadly spot!
Anyone on the southwest side attempting to walk or cycle north over that first track just beyond
the old building on the corner could so easily be hit by a silent, eastbound train--no warning horn blasts! Wham--it's all over!
Remember those teen graffiti vandals who were killed awhile back in St. Henri? Same sneaky train!
West End vintage photos - Part One:
ReplyDeleteA large portion of what is today western NDG from approximately Belmore to Connaught was originally owned by a farmer by the name of Henry Mills whose farm house was located on Cote St. Luc Road near Ashdale Avenue.
Later, during the 1940`s, a
notorious gambling joint, The Mount Royal Bridge Club, existed in a farm house at 7440 Cote St.
Luc Rd.
Presumably because it was then technically beyond Montreal`s city limits or whatever bylaws existed back then, it was tolerated for years; even regularly patronized by off-duty police, politicians, and well-known high rollers until
finally closed down by the
authorities and demolished. A school exists near the site today.
The railway marshalling yards were opened in the early 50s and even until the late 70s I remember hearing the loud bang of railcars in the wee hours of the morning as they were being hooked-up and merged into trains. That hump must have been removed since its been decades since I`ve heard those bangs. No doubt CSL residents must have complained about
it for years!
Today, however, I still hear late night-early morning diesel engine horn blasts from those railyards! What`s the story on that, I wonder? I thought it be juveniles trespassing onto the engines,
pulling the cords and running away like hell, or are rail workers
permitted to test-blast horns at 3 a.m. during their shifts? How dumb is that?
From the persistent sound of it, though, it sure seems like those are CN or CP crews doing multiple horn-testing in the early hours of the morning. A mystery within a conundrum.
There is, in fact, a law actually
prohibiting locomotive engineers from giving the "two long, one short, one long" horn blast at level crossings within the city limits; this presumably following decades of complaints by local residents constantly being woken up.
This anti-noise pollution law may possibly include ships in the harbour and canals, ships and tugs which used to create a 24-hour cacaphony of the kind heard in so many noir-type movies filmed on the waterfronts of North America.
A couple of years ago, however, I
did indeed hear such a prohibited level-crossing horn blast during the daytime at the Wilderton Avenue crossing just south of Jean Talon. Must have been a rookie engineer who didn't know the rules!
Here is a view looking South of the Roundhouse at St. Luc, with a 'High Pressure' Mikado on the table.
ReplyDeleteBrick smokestack to rear, gallery at top just visible.
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_steam/5349.jpg
Powerhouse is square building behind with three ventilators on roof.
The whistle can be seen trailing steam above right of locomotive headlight.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/striderv/4030532625/sizes/l/in/photostream/
An 'American' from the Maritimes on it's last trip on an excursion, November 1959.
There is another photo of this engine and it's train stopped for photos under the steel Tramways overpass at Decarie in November '59, the trolley wire already gone.
I spent 25 years with CPR, from the end of steam thru Unit Coal Trains with Slave Units and big GEs from Erie, PA.
Don't think I ever rode the 101? Used all the other thru 108 from time to time.
The 103 Monkland used to turn on a loop laid with cobblestones just North of Somerled on the West side of Grand. I suspect the front walk of the church now at that location reused the loop for it's front walk, or at least the cobblestones?
Unless it has recently been repaved, traces of the streetcar tracks can be seen curving West from Grand onto Somerled at the intersection.
There was once a wye at Grand and Monkland, the first end of the line thru 1934, then moved to Walkley and Somerled.
I cashed my first paycheque from BTCo. at the Royal Bank once at Monkland and Grand on the N.E. corner.
Years ago they used rollers and timbers to move a small two-story store on from the N.E. corner of Somerled and Prince of Wales across from the Steinberg's parking lot and put up a bank instead. 1954?
The store wound up on the North side of Fielding at 6815? next to the cleaners, home to Rocky Montana Fruits midway between King Edward and Rosedale.
On CSL road West of Adalbert there used to be a small creek beneath CSL just West from where Robert Burns is. ( Robert Burns was used with a temporary level crossing next to the Patricia Building when the underpass was being built. )
We used to get drunk in the R.B. Taverne then run outside and wave to the crews on the trains. A thirsty crew would sometimes stop for a minute or two as someone dashed across for smokes.
There used to be a slot car racing emporium in one of the business next to RBT., and, later, a fire burned much of the complex.
There was a farm house on CSL where Ashdale is now, surrounded by derelict Orange bulldozers and such, the farm extending way back and beyond the CPR from Ballantyne Jct. to St. Luc Jct. at Rosedale.
The house was stucco and had a parking lot and looked as if it had had a commercial history beyond the farm years.
We never went near it as all sorts of scuzzy types were looting the pipes and wires from within.
Behind the house was a gravel race track oval with small bridges made from timbers over the meandering creek which angled from under the CPR in a culvert 1916/1954 behind the house at approximately where Adalbert meets Baily.
At the culvert location a curved CPR spur headed North to a loading ramp which may have held 8 boxcars, the steel just lifted in 1959.
There was a low flat-roofed house adjacent and we explored it, oil heat.
At night it's lights could be seen South on O'Bryan at Chester.
Never have found a map showing the spur and have not ever found out what they loaded there.
The road entrance to this house was thru gates in the fence between the CSL Shopping Centre and West Broadway, this road crossing the CPR loop to LaSalle TWICE before the houses built inside the loop c. 1959.
The gates were still in the fence the last time I looked.
Other more pleasant farms with nice set backs populated CSL on the North Side West from Ashdale.
No one has yet said if the overpass photos presented by Mr. Gravenor are on Westminster?
Thank You.
Yes, it was Galardos.
ReplyDeleteThere was a referendum n CSL about the underpass on Westminster south of Wavell, around 1961.
Just south of the Westminster hump there was a coal dealer, H Y Brydges, and they would load coal from the train tracks. There was also a large pnd there till about 1960.
One branch of the Little St Pierre River ran on the border between Montreal West and Cote St Luc. It crosses Westminster at the border: the land dips and you can see the path the water must have taken.
"No one has yet said if the overpass photos presented by Mr. Gravenor are on Westminster?"
ReplyDeleteYes, they are pics of the Westminster overpass, taken just prior to its demolition and replacement by a new overpass.
Many thanks to you (and Urban Legend, Erydan, etc.) for sharing your amazing knowledge on the backgrounds of the various pics.
Once we were old enough to be trusted, we were allowed to roam at will, and NDG and environs was 'ours'.
ReplyDeleteWe walked everywhere as kids, and, once we had our bicycles, we rode all that much further.
If you were not at home, you could not be Dragooned into house work or digging weeds.
By parental decree we were 'confined' more or less to that area circumscribed by the CPR from Hampstead Tower, the Hump and West to CPR Ballantyne Jct. and then into Montreal West Station.
We were NOT to cross Decarie to the East, AT ALL!!!!
But, we still found lots to do.
Walked many of the tributaries of the Mighty Riviere St. Pierre drainage. Built rafts east of 'The Monitor's' new printing plant on the-then end of Kildare out where Cavendish now runs and explored downstream thru the Wentworth Golf Course, the flats back of the Northern Electric Cable Plant on 2/17 and, on weekends, thru Century Metals on the Canal just upstream from the Bascule Bridge.
Old home movie footage shows me at the bow of a Canaller tied up for scrap, a steam crane adjacent ready to do it's macabre work. Halco boat?
CNR scrapped over 120 steam locomotives at Turcot Yards after they moved operations out to the New Montreal yard next to CPR St Luc. We followed the St. Pierre thru there, also, and watched more dissection.
Our parents did not know about the short cut thru Sortin Yards next to the Golf Course and how we would ride our bikes out to the Dairy Queen on 2/17.
This led to a bike trip to Dorval one day, stopping to watch trains at old Grovehill Station.
Old Ballantyne Tower. October 1956.
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cpr_diesel/8911.jpg
Train is heading West towards Dorval.
The Telegrapher is using a wood hoop to deliver Train Orders to the Engineer. A shorter hoop is hanging on a hook on corner of building with Orders for the Conductor on the Caboose, which is lower.
Tracks between freight and Yard Engine with caboose curve left thru to Westminster level crossing and St. Luc Jct. at Rosedale.
Tracks behind Yard Engine travel East to Sortin Station by golf course and thru to Montreal West Station.
West end of Sortin Yard out of frame to right.
The single-track CNR from Turcot West at Raphael Ruffos Motel at the bottom of Brock cross right to left for St. Laurent, the CNR Electric Lines from Central Station at EJ/Gohier and on to Joliette via Point Aux Trembles.
On another excursion, we violated the Decarie Wall and rode all the way to Miron et Freres Quarry way up in the North end, exploring Mile End and Outremont area.
In NDG if we were nearby when we heard a train approaching, we would RUSH to the overpass on Westminster and await it's coming, clouds of smoke, cinders and noise.
Just lovely! They still whistled for CSL road by West Broadway. CPR steam bells were wonderful.
A great sound at night, when whistles communicated, before Radio.
Coal, fire, water and steam still powering our world, for a little while longer.
H. J. Brydges had some of the beat-upest, tiredest red International trucks ever seen. They also had a Public Scale where moving vans and such could be weighed empty, then full, to figure out the weight inside.
Their coal spur used to wend East almost to the Patricia Building, but, was cut back c. 1961. 'D&H Coal' orange roundel on the fence facing the passengers on passing trains.
Many Memories as we explored the West end now 60 years ago.
It was 'ours' and we 'used' it.
Before TV took hold, along with so many other distractions.
Thank You for providing a window on MY past.
"We were NOT to cross Decarie to the East, AT ALL!!!!"
ReplyDeleteI grew up living on the east side of Decarie, between Queen Mary and Cote St. Luc Road, so I missed all the fun on the west side, I guess.
My house ended up on the corner of the street, following the demolition of lower down houses in 1966 for construction of the Decarie Expressway.
Up until only recently, it was standard procedure to rides one's bike from the west end of Cote St. Luc Rd. and then quickly trespass through the railway Sortin Yard to 12th Avenue and Norman in Lachine and then use the pedestrian overpass to reach the west side of highway 20 at 14th Avenue.
ReplyDeleteNo longer, unfortunately, as that overpass was allowed to deteriorate over the years and was demolished, thus today forcing
cyclists to go the long way around through Ville St. Pierre and use streets such as St. Joseph where it is less safe to ride.
Glad they eventually put a bike path from the west end of Notre Dame under the Ville St. Pierre Interchange all the way to
George V and beyond--the path being where the old route 90 streetcar used to run.
Although I never witnessed the destruction of the old steam locos at Turcot, I seem to remember seeing many sittng ready for
scrapping in the east end Angus Shops while gazing thgough binoculars from atop Mount Royal.
Although inefficient and polluting by today's standards, I do miss those belching, clanking monsters! I'll have to go on one of those steam excursions somewhere soon!
Regarding the required "two long, one short, one long" engineers' warning whistle at level crossings: on rare occasion in the
early hours of the morning when it is dead quiet and there is a slight wind from the west, I have heard what surely must be trains whistling as they approach Route 209 and other level-crossings in Delson and St. Constant while they are either going toward or heading away from the St. Lawrence Bridge just west of the Mercier.
"We were NOT to cross Decarie to the East, AT ALL!!!!"
ReplyDeleteAfter the War, prior to moving to NDG, we resided on Saranac to the East of Decarie and used to walk to the streetcars at the Snowdon stop on the private right of way across Decarie between Earnscliffe and Clanranald.
As children then under 10, were told to stay away from Decarie, as it was BUSY with through traffic even then in the Forties.
At that time there was a vacant lot at the East end of Saranac which we passed thru to walk to Iona School.
Then they built the house at the end of Saranac, with a STEAM SHOVEL digging the basement, water from a hydrant, the new house facing onto Circle.
Now we had to go around thru the alley over to Ponsard, my Mother saying to stay away from the traffic on Decarie.
When we had moved to NDG, and had bicycles as we got older, my parents had to set SOME limits, and Decarie, with all it's imagined and remembered traffic dangers was it.
When we lived on Saranac we used to eat fish and chips at a little shop on Decarie at Dalou? Just lovely.
The furnace in the house on Saranac burned coke that may well have come from Brydges at Westminster, the coke for heating, and the coal for the small water heater in summer when the furnace was shut down was put into coal and coke bins thru a side window in the cellar.
Ashes were taken to the curb for pick up, after sifting for unburned fuel, out thru a side door.
Decarie and Queen Mary, looking North. Circa 1950.
http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/sno22.jpg
Streetcars now travel to Terminus Garland, but, still have old Montreal Tramways COMPANY crest.
Creme PCC car to right is probably on Route 29, which went from Garland to Youville Square thru 1958.
At the far end of it's route, Route 29 shared the track on McGill with the M&SC cars, but, NOT the trolley wire.
As the voltages were different, two trolley wires were used. An electric switch governed movements at De La Commune, East for Tramways cars, West for M&SC cars.
M&SC car from South Shore via Victoria Bridge crossing Blacks Bridge for M&SC terminus at Mc Gill St.
http://www.trainweb.org/oldtimetrains/photos/cnr_electric/MSC_105b.jpg
My favourite streetcars were the cars in the 1200 series as shown in the Queen Mary photo, dating back to 1913, which rode and 'sounded' like streetcars. The 1277 could well be on Route 48 St. Antoine which went to Terminus Craig thru 1957.
Many years ago.
Thank You.
M.P. and I.
ReplyDeleteIt's a small world. I grew up on Dalou, next block over from Saranac.
I went to Iona School by way of the "shortcut" through the woods at the top of Musset (now Snowdon). When I took Ponsard, I always stopped at Forman's Stationary at Ponsard/Decarie to buy my penny candy.
I could see the back of Paul Vitas' Fish and Chip Store from my back balcony. I ate there regularly---10 cent fries and 15 cents for fish, or 25 cents for both.
Check out: http://haroldro.multiply.com/
for Dalou St. pics. Always looking for other snapshots of the neighbourhood to add to the page, especially Decarie, Saranac, Ponsard, Musset, Byron,Iona School,Macdonald/Ponsard Park,
Queen Mary, Grenier, etc.
Yes, it IS a small world!!
ReplyDeleteI somewhere have photos of the house on Saranac taken c. 1940? and others of the dog, cousins and so on.
We 'owned' downstairs. My Uncle and Aunt rented from us from 1946? until they moved to Prince of Wales in 1951.
Will have to look for them.
My, My. My.
Thank You.
M.P. and I.
ReplyDeleteOkay, great. I'll add whatever pics you find of the neighbourhood. My email address is on the Dalou Street blog.
To show you how small a world it is:
Last year I met a fellow from Florida who happened to be in Maine, where I was during the summer. I discovered that he grew up in Snowdon, worked as a delivery boy at the grocery/butcher at the bottom of Saranac, as well as working as a pinboy at the bowling place above the Dominion store on the west side of Decarie.
Renting a duplex on Trans Island from the mid 50s, our building's furnace was fueled by coal up until 1958 when the owner
ReplyDeleteswitched over to gas and eventually to the purer, sulfur-smelling but less hazardous "natural gas" by Gaz Naturel, now called Gaz Metropolitain.
As kids, we used to watch with fascination the coal trucks drive up to the neighbourhood duplexes and apartment buildings which had yet to convert to gas.
The rough-looking, French-Canadian crew would wave us away as they shouted, "Baggup..baggup
..whoa!", to the driver. Then, they'd slide the moving conveyer belt to the hole in the wall and deposit the large black
chunks into the furnace room.
I really believe that in our childhood naivete this is why our generation tended to "stereotype" the French as being "blue-collar" since we kids would see them more visibly in such labour--construction work in particular.
Not to imply that there is anything sinister or "wrong" about this impression, nor did we "look down" on them as many "nationalists" like to blame us for doing. It's simply what we SAW: nothing more, nothing less. As we grew up, we knew better.
Furthermore, among the other English kids and Jews, many of my close friends in the neighbourhood were French.
In those days, the only Asians we saw ran the laundries and worked in Chinese restaurants. There were a handful of black kids in my school, one of whom was my best friend and whom I tutored in reading. The first black, West Indian kid in our elementary school class of 1960 came from Grenada--the best athlete, too, for only HE could do that running, head-over-heels workhorse somersault!
In those 1950s days there were only 2 TV channels--CBFT 2 French, and CBMT 6 English, the latter of which started up in 1954 after CBFT's original, bilingual service proved unwieldy.
In 1958, a TV cable company--Rediffusion--came into the neighbourhood and we were the first to subscribe, enabling us to
watch for the first time WPTZ Plattsburgh channel 5 and WCAX 3Burlington, Vermont! The second local English TV channel was,
of course, channel 12, beginning in 1961.
Yes, how true it is, MP&I, that TV virtually took over our lives, and how much MORE reliant we have become to media--and now
"social media", and all in the palms of our hands yet!
Well, at least we can claim to have witnessed first-hand on television the Canadiens' five great Stanley Cups in a row--all
in living black & white; no helmets, no goalie face-masks, no instant-replay! The Rocket shoots...he scores!!!
Who has read Ray Bradbury's short story about the man who is walking down the street in the evening and meeting absolutely no one because they are all inside watching TV?
Well, I HAD planned to do things today, but got wound up in these interesting topics, instead.
ReplyDeleteA Mystery House on the move, where?
Who lived there?
Where did it go?
What were the respective addresses?
Which went from Odd to Even, too!
All solved thru input and solid research from many camps.
Have to give much Thanks to 'Mr. Ro.' for starting these photos!
Mr. Gravenor for allowing us to hold forth at LENGTH on one of our favorite topics, MONTREAL!
Could not been done, otherwise.
Thank You to to the Internet and all it's wonders.
Could not have been done without it.
( Could you imagine to do what we have accomplished in less than a day, even with all the verbosity, using libraries, walking, film cameras, processing and then sending photos out for opinions and input for each contributor?
Would take WEEKS, if not months even without a Strike or two somewhere. )
Lovely.
Another Old Friend, when new.
http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6040/6283269864_ba527bf1d2_z.jpg
Take Care, All.
Just Incredible!!
Sometimes it IS nice when everyone is inside watching TV or Texting or Surfing the 'Net.
Leaves parts of town almost vacant for us to go outside.
Time for a Mountain Bike ride to clear the head as darkness falls in the West.
Brings back lots of memories of Montreal West in the 1950's and early 60's.
ReplyDeleteFactory whistles from Lachine would sound at 8 am and noon, letting us know what time it was.
My mother would check the wind direction before hanging out white sheets to dry - steam locos had a nasty habit of "darkening" anything white.
The Montreal West incinerator chimney stood for a long time after it stopped burning garbage. It had a yellow air-raid siren on it, which would sometimes go off for no apparent reason.
The 101 and 162 stopped charging extra "zone" fares after the Metro opened in 1966. There was a 101 bus stop just west of the CSL shopping centre (just before the then level crossing) which had "ZONE" written on it. You had to get off there (on a westbound bus), or you had to pay an extra fare (5 cents for kids) when you got off. The 162 was 5 cents for travelling anywhere on it.
Just to clarify:
ReplyDeleteUp until about 1958, household gas stoves were supplied by a type of "manufactured gas" which was essentially odourless and potentially hazardous. To obtain a flame atop the stove, one had to turn one of the knobs and strike a match to ignite it.
Who hasn't seen film noirs about someone turning on the gas stove without lighting a flame and committing suicide by closing all the windows and doors, or worse, trying to kill someone else and pretend it was an "accident". This actually occurred more often than you may believe!
Then gas companies around the world came up with today's so-called "natural gas" which was of a different composition and to which was added a chemical called
mercaptan which creates a strong sulfur-like smell, thus warning of any gas leak. (See the Gazette of June 3, 1958, page 25 for an
interesting article introducing Montreal to the new natural gas).
In addition, because with natural gas a "pilot light" is to be kept lit at all times at the bottom rear of the stove, a match is obviously no longer needed to light the oven or the grids on top.
Nevertheless, natural gas is still highly volatile and must be used with care. Leaks from cracked pipes have caused entire buildings to explode in flames causing multiple deaths and injuries, such as what occurred in the tragedy at LaSalle Heights back in 1964, for example.
In addition, using coal to feed a building's furnace, thus heating hot water tanks to circulate through the radiators and
supply the hot-water taps, was of course standard procedure around the world and this method only began to diminish in a serious way following the notorious London Killer Smog of 1952 where around 4000 people died.
Hard to believe? See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Smog
Not sure in exactly what year the very last home or business in Montreal was heated by coal, but it couldn't have come soon
enough!
I raise these perhaps mundane facts merely to remind those who may have forgotten how much we take for granted in this day
and age.