Not to insult anybody but Montreal's traffic planners might think about taking their pensions and leaving the job to somebody whose practices methods are not from the 70s as the answer is about as clear as day: roundabouts.
As we've stated here repeatedly, roundabouts greatly diminish accidents by slowing traffic and eliminating left turns, which are the most dangerous maneuvre in driving.
We have already urged this very thing two years ago but the senseless perpetuation of the old-fashioned and outdated traffic light system - which is massively unpopular among drivers - shows Montreal to be a backwards-thinking place that can't commit to improvement.
Traffic lights cost $200,000 to purchase and about $2,000 a year to operate, according to an interview I conducted about five years ago with a local traffic bigwig.
Traffic bigwig Ottavio Galella, who has major influence in such issues, doesn't seem to like roundabouts.
Here's what he told me five years back: "For traffic volumes which are limited it makes sense but we cannot modify tens of thousand of existing intersections with roundabouts , financially it doesn't make sense. There are situations that warrant such geometric designs which work very well by the way yet it is not a miracle solution for all the users and it is actually a problematic design for the handicapped for the visually impaired and for other vulnerable users so generally the generally the design is appropriate in low density areas or some industrial park and it certainly constitutes a good solution under specific circumstances but should not be used as an overall tool or approach to solve the issue of traffic."
Around and around we go! See:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.concordmonitor.com/home/4085285-95/roundabout-street-main-roberge
Terribly written article ....says some intersection in Concord is too small for it to work. I'm sure you could come up with a better anti roundabout note than that.
ReplyDeleteMontreal drivers cannot handle roundabouts. Traffic lights are barely respected on the island. The last thing we need is wild west "the most agressive drivers win" roundabouts. Also, roundabouts are evil and most likely a communist plot.
ReplyDeleteBill... the 70s are over.
ReplyDeleteThere are roundabouts all over the Montreal area: Chambly, Oka, Nun's Island, you're seeing more and more... they're very safe and easily navigable because traffic goes very slowly around them.
And don't forget within a couple of years the safety features on a car will be so advanced, you'll have to manually override the controls to have an accident.
Let's wake up and smell the future.
High-Volume traffic circles are scary. Those built beneath thruways and where surrounding area is not level and cluttered with obstacles and diverging routes leaving at odd spacings and more than four would be a nightmare.
ReplyDeleteMontrealers DO drive in their own fashion but, are good at it, or there would be far more accidents than there are.
Aside.
Right turn on Red, or Left on a one-way street, would mean reduce speed of your vehicle so inside wheels will not 'lift' off pavement ( much ) on turn.
As alluded to, one could almost throw away Red on some signals, and, maybe Yellow, too?
The word Arret means nothing, either, it seems.
Back to the past.
Mr. U.L. would know.
When did they REMOVE Western/De Maisonneuve from Westmount Park? SVP.
Used to be a speed strip right out to Coffee/West Broadway, with NO traffic lights on Sherbrooke for a while.
Odd traffic lights @ Cavendish with both access roads there both two-way for access/exit.
Thank You.
Concord may indeed be a poor example, but it is only one of many that anyone can scan within Google. I simply grabbed that one from the pile without analyzing it too closely. My error.
ReplyDeleteIn any event, readers can rummage back through this very blog for other more convincing examples, pro and con.
Roundabouts can and do work where there has been a history of their success and where a tradition of experienced drivers have taken them for granted and are used to them. Certainly, I have seen and ridden through such roundabouts overseas without incident.
However, as I and others have pointed out in earlier relevant blog postings, I highly doubt they would work in Montreal at major intersections due to our impatient driving habits and winter climate.
Witness how many of our drivers actually STOP at those yellow-painted pedestrian crosswalks--as they are required to do by law.
Indeed, the former trial-crosswalk (which made the TV news) at the corner of Cote des Neiges and Swail was eventually abandoned. A traffic light has since replaced it.
Imagine, too, if streetcars were ever to be re-instated on our city streets? Drivers would have to learn the rule about never passing a stopped streetcar in order to allow their passengers to embark and disembark. It would be a disaster for a very long time until it finally sunk in.
Montrealers would not be keen to drive like Torontonians have long learned to do around their streetcars.
Would the city of Montreal risk placing a roundabout at the very busy Decarie-de Maisonneuve-Upper Lachine junction? Stand by and watch the chaos! :-(
Last I heard, the east end of Upper Lachine Road was supposed to be re-routed along Crowley Avenue as orginally it had been decades earlier. Or has that idea since been dropped following protests against it?
Some cursory yet incomplete research has determined that the closure of the Westmount section of de Maisonneuve Blvd. between Lansdowne and Melville Avenues occurred sometime during 1976, but the exact date as to when vehicular traffic ceased for good is not clear. Perhaps a nearby resident can enlighten us?
ReplyDeleteIn any event, see these relevant webpages for the basic details:
http://westmountbikepath.com/history-of-the-westmount-bike-path.htm
http://westmountbikepath.com/greening-of-de-maisonneuve.htm
Up until 1976, Westmount had held several council meetings proposing the street closure and the reasoning behind it.
See the Montreal Gazette:
Sept. 22, 1972, page 41
Oct. 18, 1972, page 53
Feb. 16, 1973, page 5
However, somehow I distinctly remember driving along de Maisonneuve from downtown all the way to the end at West Broadway and I'm almost positive that this occurred in the early 80s. Since it was, however, a crosstown route I seldom took, I could be mistaken. Perhaps the Westmount section was then only open to car traffic during certain hours.
Again: those more familiar with the district can surely shine a light on this.
The key word in traffic circles is VOLUME! Next might be location regarding sight lines with bridge pillars etc. obstructing view. Another factor is SIZE, or diameter, just plain math, the larger the circle, the more time to make decisions on lane changes, "shoulder check" for overtaking vehicles, AND more generous room where large semi trailer trucks will be using the road, also.
ReplyDeleteIn a large circle, the exits/entrances are further apart, allowing more gentle ( In Montreal?? ) merges, especially for big trucks, and to make up one's mind if first time thru.
There is/was a large traffic circle in Western Canada, near Baniff?? with only 4 exits about 1/4 mile across with clear view in all directions in a big field one might say.
It works/ed well.
As mentioned, winter plays a big part, with wet sticky snow and steamed up windows, and very poor or no traction for steering or stopping.
Lets NOT talk streetcars! The cost per mile for track and wire would be outrageous, let alone the cost of rolling stock.
Trolley wire would created more street clutter with poles, and more maintenance = cost.
In snow storms a streetcar cannot move over an inch or so to pass a car in a snowbank or parked carelessly.
Ice on the wires can be a big problem!, and if the wires come DOWN, or the power goes off as in the Big Ice Storm, everything stops
The money would be better spent fixing that what is wearing out, and there is much, and get 'cleaner' busses.
Busses can run on any street, which is obvious, and operate if power off.
It's all been said before.
The days of gliding along in electric comfort on city streets are long past.
Streetcars are a royal pain to share the streets with as a motorist.
One reason Montreal eliminated streetcars was that they realized streetcars DID impede traffic flow, esp. on narrow two-way streets such as Ste. Catherine.
One often forgets that you must stop short of the REAR door on a streetcar, and in Montreal, on most 'Green' cars boarding patrons got on at the rear, where the Conductor sat.
Passing a streetcar on the LEFT is a No No as this Cadillac is doing, but, in this case, @ Prud Homme and St. J.., there might be a mechanical problem and the autos are being flagged past.
http://i147.photobucket.com/albums/r293/VIEWLINER/PTA/MTC3.jpg
Making many streets one-way c. 1955 WAS a good idea re flow.
In the good old days before the Decarie Expressway/Turcot Interchange, Decarie and Crowley were two-way, and could get really conjested at Crowley with traffic stalled as street was too-narrow with parked cars and snow drifts.
I LIKED Crowley, as it allowed a quick deek from Decarie over to Girouard and thence to 5757.
Western/De Maisonneuve was two-way to Coffee at first.
Another nice streetcar view at the-then west end of Notre Dame looking east on Rte. 91 Lachine, which shows streetcars working well.
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2747/ctm91lach01.jpg
Thank You.
Thankfully, Mayor Coderre has essentially vetoed any return to streetcars, with electric busses being the obvious next step into our future transit infrastructure. I would, however, be in favour of some sort of light rail line to cross the replacement Champlain Bridge and then onto a right-of-way along the waterfront to possibly link up with the Metro.
ReplyDeleteThe new Bombardier Metro trains should soon be rolling: first in test service and then for the public very soon as well.
See: http://www.mtlblog.com/2014/03/montreal-these-are-your-new-100-electric-stm-buses/#
As I mentioned elsewhere in this blog, I had the chance to ride one of these Chinese prototype vehicles and was impressed, so let's hope Novabus is successful with their upcoming version.
The following may be of interest.
ReplyDeletehttp://montreal.ctvnews.ca/montreal-road-repairs-causing-stress-absenteeism-resignations-report-1.1986962
Thank You.
Was in Portsmouth, NH in August. They have a big roundabout off I-95 and it works well. Though it does get a bit choked up during peak hours.
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portsmouth_Traffic_Circle
I'm familiar with that article MP & I because I wrote it.
ReplyDeleteSorry!!
ReplyDeleteI just skim read it and deemed it worthy of Coolopolis for those who may not have seen it,
A topic as sad as decaying infrastructure and the hassle the latter causes to all.
More sloppyiness on my part.
Thank You.
I live at the roundabout on sources bl. north. It's a slow one-lane circle, yet some people have no clue how to use it. Honking horns hourly. I can't imagine a multi-lane one in such a small, congested area.
ReplyDeleteHere is an image of the Portsmouth Circle.
ReplyDeletehttp://s.lnimg.com/photo/poster_768/2ccea9bc22b34930b7a34d8ef4def105.jpg
Wiki says it is 0.25 Miles in Length.
As can be seen it is huge.
Volume and Size DO matter for smooth flow and lots of room for lane changes.
Only 4 exits of circle are the max, and these are nicely spaced with good sight lines all on the flat.
None of the above apply @ Decarie and De Maisonneuve, the latter having all types of obstructions and weird branches on slopes and curves in a confined area.
Altho' there wil not be the volume of the P. one, it will be messy, esp. in poor weather esp. at nite.
That location was creepy years ago when everything was still two-way.
Thank You to Mr. U.L. for the responses, Sir!
P.S. In the following image from Google, Crowley is NOT reconnected in 2009.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.471869,-73.603903&spn=0.000015,0.006727&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.471869,-73.605953&panoid=G2JrTN1YtrVxg-RKvgo-yA&cbp=12,144.4,,0,-1.81
In 2014, It IS!.
https://maps.google.com/?ll=45.471583,-73.604182&spn=0.000015,0.006727&t=h&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.471583,-73.606231&panoid=lQytxaLiFq7zHn_Zt57Zug&cbp=12,68.05,,0,-5
Hmmm.
Feb. 11, 2021: Update relevant to concerns about roundabouts elsewhere:
ReplyDeletehttps://au.news.yahoo.com/people-dont-understand-frustrated-drivers-vent-fury-over-rarelyfollowed-road-rule-110012211.html