1) Streetcar exclusive right-of-way facing south between Queen Mary Road and Cote St. Luc Road. A few maps erroneously show this as "Girouard" since it does connect directly to it.
2) "Southern Counties" streetcar parked near Youville Square, Old Montreal. Before the line was terminated, it traversed the eastern side of the Victoria Bridge.
3) Westmount's United Church, looking south down Lansdowne just above de Maisonneuve (then Western Avenue). Note the 1956 Buick in the foreground. The bus stops were for route 124, the southern end of which then originated from Jolicoeur.
Frankly, I’m bewildered because that sure looks like my sister getting ready to enter my car. . . and if that is so, then I don’t know where the hell I’m parked in this picture.
The photo of the old MTC private right-of-way between Queen Mary and Cote St. Luc also presents numerous clues to when it was taken.
Note the route number of the northbound streetcar. The "50 Girouard" was a short-lived streetcar route inaugurated in March 5, 1951. It operated between Garland Terminus in the north and Westmount Loop in the south by way of Decarie (private right-of-way), Queen Mary, the private-of-way in the photo, Girouard, Sherbrooke, Victoria. It turned at the streetcar loop that used to be just west of the old Westmount Station's parking lot. It was replaced by buses on September 2, 1956 when all streetcar service on Sherbrooke and St. Catherine was discontinued. Note also that the northbound lane has been paved around the tracks while the southbound side has not. The photo was probably taken in the summer of 1956 and the southbound lane would probably also soon be paved around the tracks in preparation for buses sharing the space.
The last regularly scheduled streetcar route to use the private right-of-way was the "48 St. Antoine" that would be converted to buses November 3, 1957.
For almost a year, no streetcars used the tracks of the private right-of-way until November 1, 1958. On the previous day, the "29 Outremont" streetcar route had been converted to buses and the tracks would soon be paved over on Queen Mary, Decelles, Maplewood (now Edouard Montpetit) and through Outremont. That also affected the "17 Cartierville" cars, which had been using that route to get to and from their base at the St. Denis carbarns and the start of their route at Garland Terminus.
The cars used on the 17 route were then transferred to the St. Henri carbarns at De Courcelle and St. Antoine. They would now use the right-of-way in the photo as they travelled between the start of their route at Garland and the St. Henri carbarns The cars would pick up and drop off passengers along the way even though they were off their route. That route was converted to buses on June 28, 1959 and the right-of-way's tracks were finally completely covered by new pavement.
Buses would continue to use the "bus lane" until the 17 and 48 bus routes were combined around the late 1960s. Today there is a mini-garden at the north end on Queen Mary and the parking area of a taxi stand and car wash now sits on the south end at Cote St. Luc. The right-of-way has probably now been completely absorbed by the properties backing onto to it from Clanranald and Earnscliffe.
To narrow it down the second photo even further, the photographer is looking north. The street to the left of the Montreal & Southern Counties interurban car is today's Rue des Soeurs Grises. McGill Street is the next street to the east or to the right. The building with the Atlas sign on the roof is on Wellington and still there today. The small M&SC terminal bulding fronting on Rue Marguerite d'Youville is just out of the photo to the right. It's also still there and has been used as various restaurants over the years. There are now new buildings surrounding the terminal although the architects have remembered the tracks that used to be on the site by adding a large stylized diagram of the interuban station tracks on the north side of the new building.
Agree with UrbanLegend but the bus stop in the bottom picture is actually for the 78. In those days (c. 1963) the 78 ran up and down Lansdowne from the Glen, using the small Canadian Car buses e.g. 2400 and 2700 whose short wheelbase allowed them to make the tight right turn from Sherbrooke down Lansdowne. The 124 ran down Victoria.
In the background the original Westmount Skating Rink still has its open west wall. In the winter the frigid blasts would roll in from the Glen. Eventually they filled in the gaps with Kalwal fibreglass panels.
Agree with UrbanLegend but the bus stop in the bottom picture is actually for the 78. In those days (c. 1963) the 78 ran up and down Lansdowne from the Glen, using the small Canadian Car buses e.g. 2400 and 2700 whose short wheelbase allowed them to make the tight right turn from Sherbrooke down Lansdowne. The 124 ran down Victoria.
In the background the original Westmount Skating Rink still has its open west wall. In the winter the frigid blasts would roll in from the Glen. Eventually they filled in the gaps with Kalwal fibreglass panels.
In the Forties, when we lived on Saranac, Lovely Fish and Chips at Dalou, we would walk over to the Tramways' stop on Snowdon Avenue to travel South, the Tramways crossing Snowdon at this location.
The tracks were just to the left/West of the yellow steel guard rail.
At one time, a West end contractor, Raphael Ruffo, of Motel Raphael at the bottom end of Brock at 2-17, Turcot West, had a salvage yard facing CSL just to left of where the taxis are parked.
Amidst all the salvaged doors, lumber, windows and other junk was an abandoned house which all the kids thought was haunted. A scary place to await the 101 or 102 autobus on a dark windy night.
Il Etais une Fois Restaurant in the former M&SC station in Old Montreal served lovely burgers! We went there several times and talked about streetcars and the Electric Way to Granby, ad nauseam.
The restaurant had, front and centre on a shelf behind the counter, a ceramic dinner plate featuring the Montreal and Southern Counties Logo as shown on front of 1949 time table here, scroll down.
http://www.trainweb.org/elso/msc.htm
BUT, with the wording 'Il Etait une Fois' around the rim, INSTEAD!!
I asked if any were for sale to clients as souvenirs.
None were.
This M&SC car has just left 'Old' Riverside Avenue ( which was where the elevated expressway is today ) South from Mill, having passed just to the West of the still-extant pumping station, and is crossing the Interlocked CNR Coal Yard Spur to Bickerdyke Basin, the car on it's way to Victoria Bridge and the South Shore.
Buildings in Goose Village beyond.
http://davesrailpix.com/odds/qu/htm/msc20.htm
Both the Double-Track CNR and the M&SC are gone in this view South from St. Lambert.
http://davesrailpix.com/odds/qu/htm/msc06.htm
The M&SC train from St. Lambert has stopped at the switch stand and will shortly curve left and cross the CNR to head along present day Churchill Blvd. in Greenfield Park.
The switch was Interlocked with the CNR signals which would display Stop to CNR trains when M&SC was crossing.
If a M&SC train could not stop in time, there was a 'run-away' straight track to left in photo.
MacDonald boy remembers #1 as the "chute" between Earnscliffe and Clanranald from Cote St. Luc to Queen Mary Rd. We took it all winter to get to the "old WHHS" 48 from Dupuis to Monkland, transfer to #3 along Monkland. Off at Grand and a short walk to what was called "Westward" (later, Monklands)
Montreal's transition from streetcars to busses obviously did not occur overnight and relevant articles regarding equipment and route changes can be found in the Gazette--many including photos.
See: June 23, 1955, page 21, "New Bus Routes Replace Trams In Overhaul of West End System...", with an associated map on page 16.
Concerning the "end-of-an-era" tram parades along downtown routes, various other articles can be found on:
August 21, 1956, page 15
August 22, 1956, page 3
August 25, 1956, page 3
September 4, 1956, page 20
See September 3, 1956, page 1; and on page 13 where there is an interesting article about veteran MTC superintendent and engineer D.E. Blair who, among other things, comments that "...the city considers the trolley wires a hazard to firemen.", and "...the golden age of street railways is over. The bus has taken their place.".
A September 5, 1956, page 3 article entitled "New Service Faces Acid Test...", "...estimated that the new St. Catherine St. bus service moved downtown crowds out of the area at 5 p.m. from 10 to 15 minutes faster than was possible by streetcar.". Presumably, this refers to route 15 and during the period when St. Catherine was a continuous 2-way street including the section from Closse to Frontenac.
Interestingly, a photo on the aforementioned page 13 shows the original, convenient passenger platform on the east side of Cabot Park, where today no such platform or passenger access exists.
Finally, read the interesting-for-its-day and prophetic article of September 15, 1956, page 3 entitled "Bus Fumes No Health Hazard...".
* * *
Nitpickers Corner:
Further research will be needed to determine the exact date when bus route 78 was replaced by route 124 through Westmount. The 1941 MTC map posted earlier in this blogs does indeed show the 78 preceeding the 124 along a part of the latter's route.
Perhaps someone like Mr. MP&I in his infinite senior wisdom will have a quick answer to this conundrum?
Over the years, several bus routes had their routes altered as new Metro stations were opened. I possess a 1968 MTC map indicating the 124 using that section of Lansdowne Avenue south of Sherbrooke and continuing down through the Glen to eventually terminate at Jolicoeur and de Montmagny. The same 1968 map indicates the 78 also taking the Glen but then veering along St. Catherine to its new terminus at the Atwater Metro.
The clue may perhaps be exactly when those dark yellow and black circular bus stop signs were installed in Montreal and, in particular, on Lansdowne Avenue, thus indicating its established route number circa 1956 or later, given that the earliest possible date of the photo would have to be the fall of 1955 when 1956 car models went on sale to the public.
The MTC's earlier, likewise circular bus stop signs were perforated in the center, had a different colour and font, and can be seen in 1953 street photos.
Apparently, the Victoria Avenue bus had/has a reputation. See Gazette, February 19, 1972, page 4, entitled: "Nobody Wants Bus Route 124".
The streetcar right-of-way or lane in the first photo was a great place for mischief. As soon as the southbound streetcars turned into the lane from Queen Mary, there was a stop. As soon as the car came to a stop, the neighbourhood "delinquents" would run out and pull the trolley pole off the wire. That meant the motorman had to get out, walk to the back and put the trolley wheel at the end of the pole back on the wire. You had to be sure it was a one-man car. In the green two-man cars, the conductor sat next to the back door so you wouldn't have as much of a head start when running away.
When the lane was completely paved and buses started running, we would ride the back of the buses. You could stand on the bumper and cling to the top of the frame around the advertising card on the back of the bus. The driver couldn't see you. In the winter, it was bus "skiing." As soon as a bus stopped, you would grab the rear bumper and crouch down letting the bus pull you along. There had to be enough slippery snow so you could actually slide. If you suddenly came upon a bare patch, you would tumble face forward if you didn't quickly let go of the bus. Quite a few Snowdon mothers wondered why the soles on their saintly offspring's boots were wearing out so quickly.
Did anyone happen to notice the article that also appeared on page 21 of the June 23, 1955 issue of the Gazette?
There was a convention of the electrical and mechanical sections of the Association of American Railroads being held in Montreal. Amongst other things, there was discussion of atomic-powered locomotives, but "Old King Coal will continue to reign as monarch for many decades to come". (steam locomotives lasted only another five years)
The 78 bus route went through several changes over the years.
Originally there was a very short streetcar route on the Glen, the shortest on the entire system. The "97 Glen" shuttled back and forth on the Glen Road between St. Catherine and St. Antoine. Really it was more a convenience for Montreal Tramways Company employees than anything else saving them a short walk up the hill to St. Catherine from the carbarn at the Glen/De Courcelle and St. Antoine.
In 1926, it was replaced by the "78 Glen" bus route that travelled on Glen Road, St. Catherine, Victoria, Sherbrooke, Lansdowne, Glen, De Courcelle for a short distance until turning back at a small loop on the north side of the CN tracks in St. Henri near where the St. Henri coach yards once were.
The route was extended southward in 1931. Instead of going straight down De Courcelle, it turned west on Upper Lachine (St. Jacques today), south on Desnoyers, west on Cazelais, south on St. Remi, and then it looped back by way of Cote St. Paul, Notre Dame and St. Remi.
In 1951, it was again extended southward. This time it continued south on St. Remi, which becomes Laurendeau and then looped back on De L'Eglise, Eadie, Le Caron, and Laurendeau. I'm not sure whether the loop was done clockwise or counterclockwise.
A rerouting and another southward extension came in 1953. This time, the route turned west on Upper Lachine (St. Jacques)and went all the way to St. Remi where it turned south. It then turned southwest on Cote St. Paul and went across the Lachine Canal at the old bridge at De L'Eglise, turned west on St. Patrick, then south on Monk to Radout, Briand, Allard and back to Monk.
That routing lasted until 1966 when the northern terminus was changed. The bus now turned east on St. Catherine and followed it to the Atwater loop in front of the Forum.
The "124 Victoria" terminated at Victoria and St. Catherine until it was extended in 1964. It then went east on St. Catherine from Victoria, south on Glen, west on Upper Lachine (St. Jacques), south on St. Remi continuing on Laurendeau, Jolicoeur, Jogues, Jacques Hertel, Mazarin, Jolicoeur to return. There were changes again a few years later with the route travelling south of Sherbrooke on Lansdowne so it wouldn't duplicate another route already using Victoria south of Sherbrooke and along St. Catherine.
Early bus stops used by the Montreal Tramways Company were round like a doughnut with a large hole in the middle. A thick vertical and horizontal bar were inside the circle, looking like four spokes of a wheel. The word "TRAMWAY" was written on each of the bars, sharing the letter "M" in the centre. The word "AUTOBUS" was written on the top arc of the circle. The four "spokes" left four pie slice-shaped perforations or empty spaces between the four arms of the vertical and horizontal bars.
When the Montreal Transportation Commission officially took over in 1951, the bus stops started being changed over to solid round signs. The signs still had "AUTOBUS" written in an arc at the top. The doughnut "ring" was now just an effect done in a darker brown colour while the centre was yellow. They had "ROUTE XX" written along the bottom arc. In the middle of the now solid sign, were the words "STOPS HERE" in French above the English. There was also a small arrow below the words pointing to the route number below.
Eventually the bilingual "STOPS HERE" was replaced by the route number(s) in a dark brown bar with "ROUTE XX" along the bottom arc being eliminated. The arrow stayed, now below the route number(s).
Incidentally, pavement was laid around only the northbound tracks of the private streetcar right-of-way (as seen in the photo) because a new bus route had started sharing the laneway for the first time on June 26, 1955. The "66 Cote des Neiges (later redesignated the "66 Boulevard") was inaugurated on June 26, 1955 to replace most of the old "14 Guy Beaver Hall Hill" streetcar route. (The Lansdowne, Westmount Blvd., Claremont portion was replaced by the "114" bus route). The new "66" bus route came down Cote St. Luc from Westmount, turned north on the streetcar lane, east on Queen Mary, south on Decarie and back to Cote St. Luc to start another trip. Only the northbound side of the streetcar laneway would be shared by buses until November 3, 1957 when the "48 St. Antoine" streetcar route became a bus route. The southbound lane was then also paved around the rails so buses could now use both sides of the lane.
As Urban Legend notes, that Sunday, June 26, 1955 was a big day for the west end as it meant the first large scale streetcar discontinuances in the area. Both the "65 Cote des Neiges" and "14 Guy Beaver Hall Hill" streetcar routes had been very familiar and well established routes with the Westmount route being the older of the two.
On that same day, the very last new streetcar route in Montreal was inaugurated -- the "14 Sherbrooke." This rush hour only route ran from Girouard and Sherbrooke, along Sherbrooke, Atwater, St. Jacques, McGill, Craig to Craig Terminus. By September 2, 1956, a little over a year later, it was gone.
That day in 1956 marked the largest discontinuance of streetcar routes in the west end (and downtown) leaving Monkland, Grand, Somerled, Sherbrooke and St. Catherine without streetcars.
The east end by then had already lost streetcar service on St. Denis (1953), Amherst, Chambord, De La Roche, a portion of Laurier (1948) and Christophe Colomb (1948).
Fittingly, the first really major street to lose streetcar service was the dividng line between east and west -- the iconic St. Lawrence Boulevard. Buses took over on October 25, 1952.
Generally, MTC bus service frequency was fairly decent in Montreal through most of the 1960s until the bad old days of the multiple strikes of the 1970s and service cutbacks of the 1980s when I became so annoyed, I would often walk to places rather than wait. Thankfully, our transit is currently receiving more funding than it used to, so let us hope that service improves even further.
I'm not sure the MTC even continues the once-common rule that a bus may not pass the one in front of him (or her) of the same route number in order to maintain his or her shift-schedule. I do see same-route busses pass each other, whether one is full or not. However, other cities I have visited are more strict regarding such passing. In fact, it is often a reprimandable offense. (Hmmm...I do believe I just made up a new word).
I should mention one oddity that certain other city transit networks engage in that, thankfully, Montreal does NOT (at least not yet!), which is the so-called "set down only" rule, whereby a bus driver (for internal scheduling reasons) can arbitrarily decide to bypass stops--regardless if would-be passengers are waiting there--and to allow only existing passengers on his bus to disembark at the stops for which said passengers have rung the bell beforehand.
Imagine if the MTC tried to pull that stunt here? Public lynchings would ensue!
Regarding the re-routing of certain MTC busses, I've often wondered if ulterior, perhaps union rules-based motives would prevail over convenience to the public.
For example, I've always contended that instead of having St. Laurent route 55 terminate on the west side of the Provincial Court House, it ought to originate right from the Old Port property itself south of de la Commune (originally known as Common Street). There is plenty of room in the port at the foot of St. Lawrence for a loop alongside the small tour busses. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the Old Port being federal property, the city doesn't want to pay for the space.
For years, I had always hoped for a de la Commune bus route as well, and thankfully the 515 was inaugurated a few years ago, although there seems to be some contention as to how useful it really is, never mind that the city had hardly publicized its existence to begin with. If the city banned vehicular traffic on parts of de la Commune, ridership would obviously improve, but I imagine they prefer the parking-meter revenue.
But, returning to the 55: for an all-too-brief period in the mid-80s, this vital route actually terminated at the Henri Bourassa Metro, thus making it virtually a top-to-bottom route, but because the Youville Garage's Chabanel gate just east of St. Lawrence was so convenient to drivers, I think that the temptation was too great for them to prefer taking their lunch and rest period at that location instead, thus we've since had a situation where another bus must be taken--the ridiculously short and infrequent route 53 connecting the Cremazie Metro to Henri Bourassa Metro, despite the fact that it is only a 5-6 minute ride further on from Chabanel to Henri Bourassa and vice versa. Is that extra distance too much to expect from a bus driver?
Then, of course, we have the Mountain route 11 heaving its way up steep and narrow Ridgewood Avenue and back when it ought to terminate closer to the Cote des Neiges Metro, thus generating more revenue with increased passenger usage.
Another no-brainer is to run northbound route 17 on Girouard and then east on Monkland instead of the problematic Cote St.Luc to connect to other bus routes at the Villa Maria Metro, and then continuing north on Decarie and to Cote Vertu as it currently does. As it stands today, however, anyone disembarking from a different bus route at Villa Maria who prefers or needs the 17 bus rather than descending into the northbound Metro, must walk or run north on Decarie and, if seeing it, hope to catch it before it veers north from Cote St. Luc Road, or otherwise wait for the next all-too-infrequent one--snow, rain or shine.
And while were at it, why not re-absorb route 64 back into the 17, therefore re-establishing most of the original Cartierville line the way it used to be? All of this switching from bus to bus--especially in bad weather--can be a damn nuisance. Besides, isn't it easier to change a fatigued driver than to create crowds of running students or working stiffs (working frozen stiffs?) who need to make an ongoing connection?
Yes, one may argue that duplicating an already-existing Metro route with a parallel bus route is "wasteful redundancy", but when you consider that the Metro does sometimes--albeit temporarily--shut down for various reasons, having a "duplicate" choice already in place is clearly wiser than having to call up "shuttle routes" on short notice to satisfy angry would-be passengers whose schedules have been thrown off-kilter by such Metro breakdowns--despite how infrequently they occur.
Update regarding bus route 55. As of 2019, the northern terminus is on Millen Avenue facing the IGA to the north of the Henri Bourassa Metro station. Finally! The short route 53 still exists, but of what real value it will maintain remains to be seen. I have a sneaking suspicion that many of these short routes (such as route 13) only exist for training purposes or other nebulous reasons yet to be revealed.
I still insist that route 17 ought to have its southern terminus at Lionel-Groulx Metro (and not the "dead zone" at dreary Metro St. Henri) and that on its northern direction busses swerve to pick up passengers (many of them students) at Metro Villa Maria and then continue north. More passengers, more revenue. So far, my emails to the STM suggesting these alterations have fallen on deaf ears. :-(
There was a unique (I believe) bus stop at the SW corner of Sherbrooke and Victoria until the Metro opened in October 1966. Rather than a large group of route numbers on the black and yellow bus stop (the 78, 102, 103, 105, 124 (and probably the 411 (née 11E) double-fare Westminster express), it simply said "Toutes les lignes/All lines".
Wonderful people, on this Wonderful site telling us about Wonderful things about Wonderful Montreal. I thank you all, in more ways than I can express: my genuine thank you all for telling us what you know about our Wonderful and unique city. . . and, I love you all for celebratimg the Wonderful thoughts I always retian of my Beautiful city by the - - - river?? Oh well, no matter where, I love Montreal. Sincerely, LR
Special Version of later MTC sign in Colour featuring the arrow pointing down.
Usually there would be just a Route Number in black crossbar where the triangle is with the arrow below.
The top trim piece is for this special service.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/7862297.bin
I could not find a photo of the 1951-52-era yellow version with the route numbers around the lower rim, yet.
The bus sign in Coolopolis photo No. 3 is of the later version and 'fits in' with the age of the autos.
I recalled the All Lines bus stop sign, but had forgotten where it was.
There was a reversed-colours yellow on black Exit Only Autobus sign on Sherbrooke just West of Patricia where patrons could only descend before the 102-105 turned into Elmhurst Loop.
There must have been others.
There was a Cast Iron Tramways Autobus sign on eBay about ten years ago and I called a friend in NDG who telephoned the seller in the Lachute area.
The sign did not sell on eBay and my friend worked out a deal by 'phone and went and picked it up.
I saw it in NDG and drooled, he also having several of the later Yellow/Black version with the horizontal route numbers and the black arrow below.
A few years later the Cast Iron sign was presented to a recognized 'Authority' on Montreal Tramways who is assembling photos and data for a forthcoming book on the Tramways to update the Binns Book, and the Authority almost dropped to his knees and Genuflected as if the sign was a piece of the True Cross or some such significant Artifact.
He had never seen one in the flesh since the MTC removed them. Neither had I.
Gotta love eBay! Unearthing the past, bid by bid.
As far as I know the Cast Iron Autobus sign from eBay is now at Exporail Delson/St. Constant??
With further reference to that private tram/bus right-of-way between Cote St. Luc and Queen Mary Road...
I also remember there was an MTC inspector's booth (with telephone) at its south-east corner with Cote St. Luc Road, approximately where the "Lave Auto" sign is in this Google view:
Needless to say, I used to ride my bike along that private road both before and after the busses were discontinued, enjoying that peaceful, traffic-free shortcut for years right to the very end of its existence, long before our "official" bike paths appeared on our streets.
The city was also required to maintain that road even after the busses had gone for good. I once saw a street-flusher truck keeping it clean. Adjacent tree branches eventually drooped lower and lower over it as well, so I imagine they had to be trimmed from time to time.
It would be interesting to learn what kind of property-line expansion arrangements were made with the local Earnscliffe duplex-owners and whatever Clanranald dwellings backed up against it. It must surely be a rare event having one's back yard enlarged under such unique circumstances too, considering that the right-of-way was put through before long before Earnscliffe Avenue even existed. Perhaps one of those residents reading this can enlighten us?
See this Google view from the cul-de-sac of Avonmore Avenue facing east toward the rear of the Earnscliffe duplexes:
How many remember that this lucky resident had his FRONT lawn significantly enlarged when reconfigurations were made at the southeast corner of Girouard and Guillaume Couture. See Google maps below which shows the hedged-in lawn to the right of the little trailer. This lawn was originally smaller, having been preceded by the curving of the streetcar tracks and later the road asphalt after the tracks had been removed or paved over.
In any event, this corner of Cote St. Luc Road, Girouard, and Terrebone had over many decades been rearranged several times to accommodate the increasing traffic and accessibility to these converging neighbourhoods.
If anyone has any further relevant photos, please post them here or refer their location.
Around 1980?? after absorbing a great meal at Cote St. Luc Bar BQ, I walked North on the old right of way, the Autobuses no longer using it.
I was wondering if they had overlooked some of the old bus stop signs and we later could make a visit to 'preserve' one.
No luck.
There was once a small piece of right of way to the South across CSL road with gravel in lieu of Asphalt, an almost-street running the streetcar tracks over to Girouard as it curved to the West when looking South.
To the West was a HUGE Diamond Taxi sign up high which visually dominated the whole area.
After walking North to QM on the old discontinued RoW, I was opposite the tall apartment building which eyesores the whole region.
When working for the Bell I installed telephones there for the first tenants.
A lot of problems re 'Concealed Wiring' in the solid walls located using a Buzzer and the 1011B Lineman's Test Set.
Often the wiring was 'Grounded Out' possibly by the wire mesh in this type of wall, and the Installer had to run normal JKTN wire with his staple gun exposed on the walls, the concealed wiring useless.
One plan the Bell experimented with was to have a base transformer in the basement and run voltage up the cable risers on Pair Slate/Violet so the Installer would have a power source for the electric light inside the Princess Telephone.
This would eliminate the need for an ugly transformer and wire in the apartments which ordered Princess Telephones.
A notice was placed in the Cross Connect Terminal in the basement advising the Installer about this.
Also installed telephones in the other highsore on Monkland next the the HUnter Exchange, the apartments in the area near Adalbert and the Robbie Burns Taverne.
The block opposite Patricia on Sherbrooke and the two at Cavendish.
When they were assembling the tower crane for one of the Cavendish buildings, it fell over, bridging Sherbrooke and knocking bricks off the East corner of a lower apartment on the North side.
The newer bricks could still be seen if one knew where to look.
Speaking of bus signs...there are still remnants of painted poles where Provincial Transport/Metropolitain Provincial buses would stop in Baie d'Urfe and Beaconsfield...until a few years ago, there was still a Metropolitain Provincial stop right on a pole along Sherbrooke East (their Repentigny line from Radisson Metro)...and along the Trans Canada service road west of Fairview, before Merck-Frosst, next to the forest lot that at one time was going to be the relocated John Abbott Campus, was, high up on a street lamp, a zone-change division point designator for Metropolitain...service which all ended in November/1980.
Radio advertising jingles from the early 60's (from the large billboards/signs pictured or described in these postings):
Call Diamond Taxis for better service VIctor 2-3221 Dependable, quicker Diamond service VIctor 2-3221.
[number became 842-3221, and eventually the current 273-6331]
It's a treat, a family treat Kik Cola, the real cola First in family size, be quality wise Get Kik - the real cola. Kik Cola.
I don't recall any jingles for Pinky (trading) stamps - issued by Steinberg's (one stamp for every 10 cents' worth purchased; 50 stamps per page; about 20 pages per book). I still have the bathroom scale purchased with several books of Pinkies. :-)
I very much remember Raphael Ruffo's salvage yard at the south end of the tramway lane and also the supervisor's kiosk.
The "straightening" of the north end of Girouard took place in the summer of 1974. It's hard to believe it was almost 40 years ago.
Every year there are fewer and fewer of us who actually rode the streetcars. Even if your teenage years were in the 1950s, you would now be in or entering your 70s. And by the 1950s, it was already the twilight of the streetcar era.
By 1959, the last remaining streetcar route in the west end was the "17 Cartierville," which lasted until the end of June. By then the cars were looking shabby as the maintenance was reduced to what was absolutely necessary. The tracks on the private right-of-way between "big" Decarie and "little" Decarie south of Garland to just north of Queen Mary had been single-tracked with most of the right-of-way paved for buses. Double tracks remained on a short stretch of Queen Mary west of Decarie to the tramway lane, south on the lane, south on Girouard, east on Upper Lachine to De Courcelle. As I noted earlier, this allowed the few remaining cars to get to and from the St. Henri carbarns for storage and limited maintenance.
By that June 1959 date, only three routes remained in the east end: the Delormier route, which lasted until July 18, and the Papineau and Rosemont routes. Those two routes shared a good portion of Papineau and were the final two to go at the end of August.
Interestingly the track network by then had large orphan sections so the last streetcars had to be taken from their respective carbarns by truck to the Youville shops for scrapping. The newest cars in the fleet -- the streamlined PCC cars, which were longtime fixtures on the "29 Outremont" and later the "54 Rosemont" after the former was discontinued -- were only 15 years old. In streetcar terms, they were barely young adults so the MTC kept them at Youville hoping to sell them. With no interest from Toronto or other cities, the cars were finally scrapped in the early 1960s by an outside salvage company.
In more innocent times, it was great fun to visit the Montreal Tramways Company/Montreal Transportation Commission head office on Craig Street. Without so much as an appointment, the public relations staff would graciously let me sit in an empty office while they brought in streetcar photo albums, maps, the track book and other items so this streetcar fan could indulge to his heart's content.
Hampstead Towers (5120 Earnscliffe, first appearing in the 1967-68 Lovells Directory) violated the existing building zoning codes not to exceed a certain height.
Nevertheless, through some kind of subterfuge or palm-greasing with city officials, the owner somehow managed to continue adding floors with the city inspectors turning a blind eye until it reached what looks like a total of 25 (including the commercial ones having Queen Mary Road addresses).
I remember someone telling me the name of the owner was and how this fiasco ever occurred in the first place, but I have forgotten the details. Surely, someone reading this will know? Perhaps Kristian will have a few sources of relevant information.
I suspect, however, that there was an ulterior motive all along behind the project, considering that an enormous transmitting tower was immediately installed on the roof by Motorola, with one of the users being the RCMP. Obviously, such an optimum location on what would turn out to become the tallest building in the west end provided unprecedented signal coverage for the metropolitan area so it is entirely possible that somebody influential pulled some strings.
Strangely enough, several years ago the radio tower was unceremoniously dismantled and never replaced. One has to wonder how its previous users reacted, although I seem to remember some concurrent media controversy regarding electromagnetic radiation being the possible cause of cancer and a potential source of other health issues, and, as we all know, relevant studies continue to this day.
Several years ago, a large satellite dish attached to the west side of the 5120 Earnscliffe came loose and crashed down upon the roof of the adjacent apartment building 5475-5481 Queen Mary Road--which itself has also been continuously plagued by "mysterious fires" requiring several, extensive renovations.
Indeed, so many fires have occurred at 5475-81 that it is a miracle it hasn't been completly demolished by now, and one has to be more than suspicious that somebody is hiring arsonists in a desperate attempt to drive the building's owners to abandon the place, thus creating the opportunity for some shark "developer" to snap up the property in order to construct another high-rise or condo monstrosity. Thus far, however, 5475-81 has miraculously managed to survive--at least until the next fire--although you couldn't pay me to move in there for any amount of money. Renters beware!
Concerning the violation of building height restrictions: how many remember that the city did prevent the builder of that 4994 Cote des Neiges apartment building (see Google map below) from extending more than 4 floors, reportedly because raising it higher would have partially blocked the view of nearby St. Joseph's Oratory.
In fact, the 4994 building replaced the old PSBGM Cote des Neiges School (also known as Coronet School back in the day) which had been inexplicably demolished for no good reason that I recall, especially during that era of schoolroom shortages.
The 17 and 48 were combined around 1974-75 after the people who lived next to the 17 terminus on Monkland, between Earnscliffe & Girouard complained about the noise and smell of the buses (I know, my parents were amongst those who complained — we had moved right there in 1970). It made for an unwieldingly long line (this is why re-merging the 17 and 64 won't work — the 17 is parallel to a métro line and thus has very low ridership, whereas the 64 continues it) and eventually, the 17 was terminated at St-Henri in 1981 when the Métro opened to there, and to Côte-Vertu when the Métro opened to there several years later; the northern portion of the line was then assured by the 64.
The M&SC cars shared a street loop in front of the terminal with Montréal streetcars. At the end of the loop was an automatic switch which was powered by whichever wire drew power, because there was two wires, one for the MTC and one for the M&SC. Then one day, a Montréal car depoled, and the motorman put the pole back on the wrong wire, and happily went onto M&SC tracks until it met a M&SC car on the Victoria Bridge…
MP&I, Re: Raphaël Ruffo. Oh wow. When my father built the country house, he got many material from Ruffo’s salvage yard, which had then moved to Blainville… We must have met at the Il Était Une Fois supper that celebrated the CRHA 50'th anniversary; I made a M&SC screetcar out of meccano… :) :) :) :)
Regarding the 78, I recall many times being bitterly disappointed to see a 78 show-up instead of the 102 or the 103 when I wanted to get back to Notre-Dame-de-Grâces from the Atwater Métro, in the 1970’s, so the 78 had it’s terminus moved there in the early 1970’s…
I've seen more than once over the last 40 years a full bus intentionally skip some stops, the latest one not earlier than 2 weeks ago, on the 125, during a Métro outage.
Get away for a day, for a week, for a month...get away, the easy way. You'll be glad for sure, with Voyageur, where there's less to pay.. and less delay...
Kentucky Fried Chicken, in your neighbourhood... Colonel Sanders and his boys... make it finger lickin' good
You can still visit the STM archives in Place Bonaventure by appointment...the staff is very helpful. I even found letters in their files that I had sent in the 80s to Lawrence Hanigan.
Yes, certainly when a bus is jammed full to the gills with passengers (usually around a big game or other event), the driver can logically bypass stops where would-be passengers are waiting. Sorry, were too full!
On the other hand, if a passenger already on that jammed-full bus wants to disembark at such a stop, then the driver generally allows one or two new passengers aboard.
I often remember this happening during snowstorms. Sometimes brazen schoolkids would even sneak in the side doors after others disembarked.
The "set down rule" used by other transit systems to which I refer, however, is different in that the driver can arbitrarily flash a "SET DOWN ONLY" message on the display over his windshield, as our MTC drivers often do with "HORS SERVICE".
That way, if you are waiting for a bus of that particular route, you can at least see the "SET DOWN ONLY" warning, and that he's not stopping for you. Tough luck!
Different transit sistems have different rules. Some forbid exiting from the front door--period. Others only allow a certain maximum of passengers aboard for safety reasons. Others will not allow passengers to enter or disembark other than at the curb and not the street pavement.
I seem to remember our busses having a sign at the front which said, "Do not talk to the driver". The "no spitting" signs have disappeared as well, as have the "no food or drink" pictograms.
It must selective Alzheimer's, but I do not remember the Inspecteur's Kiosk at CSL and the Tramways RoW.
Hmmmm.
In the tracks at the car stop there just North of CSL were track expansion joints to take up expansion and contraction of steel in exposed portion of track before they were paved over North for Autobuses.
Wonder if they are still there under the parking lot of the Car Wash to the East of the taxi stand.
Track expansion joint on right track just North of Terminus Garland.
http://dewi.ca/trains/montreal/pix/a005_12.jpg
In the far distance can be seen the 'slot' of Decarie up past Dalou and Ponsard to CSL, and the 'Big Bank' with it's sign to the left.
To left of streetcar is low-sided City of Montreal Sicard dump truck. The sides were low so walking shovellers cleaning up winter sand, etc. did not have to throw so high.
As is well known, the Decarie Expressway changed all that.
There was another almost-street right of way on Queen Mary just East of Cote de Neiges over to Gatineau? to the east of the Oratory and the Wax Museum.
Before it came off, we thrilled to the big descent down Cote de Neiges to Sherbrooke on the 65 CdeN streetcar, occasionally going up to Beaver Lake on the 93 Remembrance.
The ugly structure on the NW corner of Remembrance was spooky.
We too had a pink bathroom scale, 'Ritz' brand, which may have come from Pinky Stamps???
Pinky Stamps could be redeemed at the Steinberg's at Cavendish and Sherbrooke as I recall. There was a PTC bus stop sign out front in Orange and Black, the colours of the Provincial buses at the time.
Steinberg's had red trucks, still.
Red Steinberg's truck heading East at Prud'homme and St. James/Jacques before the expressway messed this up, too.
The 'Gantry' to the lower right, one of two, was for an electric travelling crane with a clam shell bucket that moved quenched ashes from water-filled ash pits under the tracks to gondolas, collected from ash pans on incoming steam locomotives.
There was lots to see when you went to look at Turcot in the Fifties.
LaSalle Coke and it's rising and falling 'Gasometers' Gasholders would be seen beyound the Lachine Canal to the far right.
Video rising and falling gasholder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-qSHvkYF5k
LaSalle Coke's were much larger.
Royal Mail was handled in red trucks from 'Rod Service Ltee.'
We had to go to Terminus Craig to have photos taken for 'Bus Passes'.
When my Father died, I found a small collection of 'Tramways' items, including several Tramways Student Passes/w photos for himself and his brother from the Twenties.
It all went to Exporail.
Their school class visited Youville Shops at some point and had a great time.
As far as 'Jingles' are concerned, the only one I can remember rite now was for BA which went something like;
'Turn in at the sign of the big BA, Your motoring companion all the way! etc.
There was another Jingle on the radio all the time for 'Peoples Credit Jewellers' and another from a Coal company.
As for buses stopping/starting, I have had luck even being picked up by out-of-service buses...on a cold 31Dec, walking along St-Joseph E., a garage-bound bus, empty, pulled in and said he could take me as far as the Metro...another time, waiting at Decarie south of Villa Maria, connecting from the 102 to the 24, a short-loop 24, having dropped pax at Villa-Maria, was going empty eastbound to start service only at Atwater, again on a cold winter's night...the driver, a very cute young girl, asked where I was going, and when I said "Sherbrooke & St-Laurent", she said to hop on board as she was only in service east of Atwater.
What Exporail needs is for some magnanimous philanthropist to donate several million (tax-deductible) dollars so that they can refurbish every last one of their streetcars, locomotives, etc., but somehow I doubt I will live that long to see this happen.
The Kenebunkport and Baltimore museums have treated their rail history with much more concern and respect than we have.
Baltimore is a major league city. Montreal is Peoria of the North with grand thoughts of itself but not the dollars or civic pride and citizenry who will stand up to the plate. We have hermits like Robert Miller who horde their cash, and Guy Laliberte, who trolls the beach for tail, while other cities have bright lights who give to the symphony, museums, buy into major league sports franchises, etc.
Urban Legend: Won't happen. Some people there are pretty anal about athenticity, even when rusted through.
I remember working on fixing the brake system on a streetcar that carried visitors, and one tiny 1/4 inch pipe on a valve was badly rusted. No, we could not change it!
* * *
I was lucky too with oute of service buses; after the snowstorm after Christmas, I was waiting for the bus when an emoty out-of-service bus stopped and asked if we went to the Métro.
Which we did, so we hopped on board. Turns out the driver has been on duty for 15 hours; he got stuck in the snow and he waited 12 hours for the towing to show-up... He was glad to finally have some passengers...
How pathetic that during restorative work a lousy pipe underneath a streetcar--unseen by anyone--cannot be changed due to someone's twisted idea of "authenticity". I can't imagine most museums worrying too much about such trivia. Just do whatever it takes to make it run again, that's all!
Such ridiculous notions don't hold water, of course--particularly with cars, trucks, and busses.
For one thing, original parts may very well be inferior to what was manufactured at a later date. Just look at all of the recalls!
Would you rather install an inferior brake pad on a vintage bus just because it is "original"?
What happens when someone is restoring a vintage automobile? Does the owner really expect to find strictly original parts such as tires, pistons, seats, and so on? Good luck!
He could spend a lifetime searching scrap yards worldwide in vain and never find the original part he seeks.
Furthermore, how can one always prove if a presumed original part isn't "only a replica", fakery being so widespread?
Turn in at the sign of the big BA Your travelling companion all the way There you'll get service fit for a king And products that make your engine sing Follow the leader all the way Turn in at the sign of the big BA.
More Canadians shop at Dominion Than at any other store And it's mainly because of the meat (Because of the meat?) Because of the meat.
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Here's to a summer of fun And here's to the days that are best Sing along with the gang your favourite request And say OK for O'Keefe.
Molson Canadian, really Canadian Molson Canadian, lager beer.
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Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid A six-cent package makes two quarts full....
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New Teem is here, it's crystal clear In the bright green bottle....
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Love to get comments! Please, please, please speak your mind ! Links welcome - please google "how to embed a link" it'll make your comment much more fun and clickable.
1) Streetcar exclusive right-of-way facing south between Queen Mary Road and Cote St. Luc Road. A few maps erroneously show this as "Girouard" since it does connect directly to it.
ReplyDelete2) "Southern Counties" streetcar parked near Youville Square, Old Montreal. Before the line was terminated, it traversed the eastern side of the Victoria Bridge.
3) Westmount's United Church, looking south down Lansdowne just above de Maisonneuve (then Western Avenue). Note the 1956 Buick in the foreground. The bus stops were for route 124, the southern end of which then originated from Jolicoeur.
1 - Tram line between Queen Mary & CSL Road.
ReplyDelete2 - ?
3 - Snowden Ave.
Frankly, I’m bewildered because that sure looks like my sister getting ready to enter my car. . . and if that is so, then I don’t know where the hell I’m parked in this picture.
ReplyDeleteThe photo of the old MTC private right-of-way between Queen Mary and Cote St. Luc also presents numerous clues to when it was taken.
ReplyDeleteNote the route number of the northbound streetcar. The "50 Girouard" was a short-lived streetcar route inaugurated in March 5, 1951. It operated between Garland Terminus in the north and Westmount Loop in the south by way of Decarie (private right-of-way), Queen Mary, the private-of-way in the photo, Girouard, Sherbrooke, Victoria. It turned at the streetcar loop that used to be just west of the old Westmount Station's parking lot. It was replaced by buses on September 2, 1956 when all streetcar service on Sherbrooke and St. Catherine was discontinued. Note also that the northbound lane has been paved around the tracks while the southbound side has not. The photo was probably taken in the summer of 1956 and the southbound lane would probably also soon be paved around the tracks in preparation for buses sharing the space.
The last regularly scheduled streetcar route to use the private right-of-way was the "48 St. Antoine" that would be converted to buses November 3, 1957.
For almost a year, no streetcars used the tracks of the private right-of-way until November 1, 1958. On the previous day, the "29 Outremont" streetcar route had been converted to buses and the tracks would soon be paved over on Queen Mary, Decelles, Maplewood (now Edouard Montpetit) and through Outremont. That also affected the "17 Cartierville" cars, which had been using that route to get to and from their base at the St. Denis carbarns and the start of their route at Garland Terminus.
The cars used on the 17 route were then transferred to the St. Henri carbarns at De Courcelle and St. Antoine. They would now use the right-of-way in the photo as they travelled between the start of their route at Garland and the St. Henri carbarns The cars would pick up and drop off passengers along the way even though they were off their route. That route was converted to buses on June 28, 1959 and the right-of-way's tracks were finally completely covered by new pavement.
Buses would continue to use the "bus lane" until the 17 and 48 bus routes were combined around the late 1960s. Today there is a mini-garden at the north end on Queen Mary and the parking area of a taxi stand and car wash now sits on the south end at Cote St. Luc. The right-of-way has probably now been completely absorbed by the properties backing onto to it from Clanranald and Earnscliffe.
To narrow it down the second photo even further, the photographer is looking north. The street to the left of the Montreal & Southern Counties interurban car is today's Rue des Soeurs Grises. McGill Street is the next street to the east or to the right. The building with the Atlas sign on the roof is on Wellington and still there today. The small M&SC terminal bulding fronting on Rue Marguerite d'Youville is just out of the photo to the right. It's also still there and has been used as various restaurants over the years. There are now new buildings surrounding the terminal although the architects have remembered the tracks that used to be on the site by adding a large stylized diagram of the interuban station tracks on the north side of the new building.
I agree with UrbanLegend on #2, it's the old Montreal & Southern Counties Terminus, later Il Etait Une Fois restaurant, and now a pizza restaurant.
ReplyDeleteIf one were to took on Google Maps for the "right of way" in photo 1.. Where would it exactly be?
ReplyDeleteAgree with UrbanLegend but the bus stop in the bottom picture is actually for the 78. In those days (c. 1963) the 78 ran up and down Lansdowne from the Glen, using the small Canadian Car buses e.g. 2400 and 2700 whose short wheelbase allowed them to make the tight right turn from Sherbrooke down Lansdowne. The 124 ran down Victoria.
ReplyDeleteIn the background the original Westmount Skating Rink still has its open west wall. In the winter the frigid blasts would roll in from the Glen. Eventually they filled in the gaps with Kalwal fibreglass panels.
Agree with UrbanLegend but the bus stop in the bottom picture is actually for the 78. In those days (c. 1963) the 78 ran up and down Lansdowne from the Glen, using the small Canadian Car buses e.g. 2400 and 2700 whose short wheelbase allowed them to make the tight right turn from Sherbrooke down Lansdowne. The 124 ran down Victoria.
ReplyDeleteIn the background the original Westmount Skating Rink still has its open west wall. In the winter the frigid blasts would roll in from the Glen. Eventually they filled in the gaps with Kalwal fibreglass panels.
What wonderful information!! which answered many lingering questions from 50 years ago!!
ReplyDeleteThank You!
Present Google view of Tramways photo at Queen Mary on Coolopolis.
http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.48175,-73.630728&spn=0.000004,0.00191&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.481675,-73.630796&panoid=KQHomVvQFUytR1AYCfDwlw&cbp=13,121.18,,0,0.14
In the Forties, when we lived on Saranac, Lovely Fish and Chips at Dalou, we would walk over to the Tramways' stop on Snowdon Avenue to travel South, the Tramways crossing Snowdon at this location.
Looking South.
http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.480648,-73.628665&spn=0.000015,0.007639&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.48074,-73.628584&panoid=gCmLRL7xEjU8FTwU4pzmYg&cbp=13,126.39,,0,4.85
Here is the current Google view of the South end of the Tramways' right of way at Cote St Luc.
http://maps.google.com/?ll=45.479166,-73.62531&spn=0.000004,0.00191&t=m&z=19&layer=c&cbll=45.479128,-73.62552&panoid=M9BMr0flhe_hDFc9M_yNpA&cbp=13,345.1,,0,8.29
The tracks were just to the left/West of the yellow steel guard rail.
At one time, a West end contractor, Raphael Ruffo, of Motel Raphael at the bottom end of Brock at 2-17, Turcot West, had a salvage yard facing CSL just to left of where the taxis are parked.
Amidst all the salvaged doors, lumber, windows and other junk was an abandoned house which all the kids thought was haunted. A scary place to await the 101 or 102 autobus on a dark windy night.
Another M&SC view, rear of station to right.
http://havremontreal.qc.ca/assets/images/histoire/Vue-du-terminus-de-la-Montreal-&-Southern-Counties-Railway.jpg?phpMyAdmin=2U58LOQWQPPGl6tQwieEQ8LbYs3
Il Etais une Fois Restaurant in the former M&SC station in Old Montreal served lovely burgers! We went there several times and talked about streetcars and the Electric Way to Granby, ad nauseam.
The restaurant had, front and centre on a shelf behind the counter, a ceramic dinner plate featuring the Montreal and Southern Counties Logo as shown on front of 1949 time table here, scroll down.
http://www.trainweb.org/elso/msc.htm
BUT, with the wording 'Il Etait une Fois' around the rim, INSTEAD!!
I asked if any were for sale to clients as souvenirs.
None were.
This M&SC car has just left 'Old' Riverside Avenue ( which was where the elevated expressway is today ) South from Mill, having passed just to the West of the still-extant pumping station, and is crossing the Interlocked CNR Coal Yard Spur to Bickerdyke Basin, the car on it's way to Victoria Bridge and the South Shore.
Buildings in Goose Village beyond.
http://davesrailpix.com/odds/qu/htm/msc20.htm
Both the Double-Track CNR and the M&SC are gone in this view South from St. Lambert.
http://davesrailpix.com/odds/qu/htm/msc06.htm
The M&SC train from St. Lambert has stopped at the switch stand and will shortly curve left and cross the CNR to head along present day Churchill Blvd. in Greenfield Park.
The switch was Interlocked with the CNR signals which would display Stop to CNR trains when M&SC was crossing.
If a M&SC train could not stop in time, there was a 'run-away' straight track to left in photo.
Thank You.
MacDonald boy remembers #1 as the "chute" between Earnscliffe and Clanranald from Cote St. Luc to Queen Mary Rd. We took it all winter to get to the "old WHHS" 48 from Dupuis to Monkland, transfer to #3 along Monkland. Off at Grand and a short walk to what was called "Westward" (later, Monklands)
ReplyDeleteMontreal's transition from streetcars to busses obviously did not occur overnight and relevant articles regarding equipment and route changes can be found in the Gazette--many including photos.
ReplyDeleteSee: June 23, 1955, page 21, "New Bus Routes Replace Trams In Overhaul of West End System...", with an associated map on page 16.
Concerning the "end-of-an-era" tram parades along downtown routes, various other articles can be found on:
August 21, 1956, page 15
August 22, 1956, page 3
August 25, 1956, page 3
September 4, 1956, page 20
See September 3, 1956, page 1; and on page 13 where there is an interesting article about veteran MTC superintendent and engineer D.E. Blair who, among other things, comments that "...the city considers the trolley wires a hazard to firemen.", and "...the golden age of street railways is over. The bus has taken their place.".
A September 5, 1956, page 3 article entitled "New Service Faces Acid Test...", "...estimated that the new St. Catherine St. bus service moved downtown crowds out of the area at 5 p.m. from 10 to 15 minutes faster than was possible by streetcar.". Presumably, this refers to route 15 and during the period when St. Catherine was a continuous 2-way street including the section from Closse to Frontenac.
Interestingly, a photo on the aforementioned page 13 shows the original, convenient passenger platform on the east side of Cabot Park, where today no such platform or passenger access exists.
Finally, read the interesting-for-its-day and prophetic article of September 15, 1956, page 3 entitled "Bus Fumes No Health Hazard...".
* * *
Nitpickers Corner:
Further research will be needed to determine the exact date when bus route 78 was replaced by route 124 through Westmount. The 1941 MTC map posted earlier in this blogs does indeed show the 78 preceeding the 124 along a part of the latter's route.
Perhaps someone like Mr. MP&I in his infinite senior wisdom will have a quick answer to this conundrum?
Over the years, several bus routes had their routes altered as new Metro stations were opened. I possess a 1968 MTC map indicating the 124 using that section of Lansdowne Avenue south of Sherbrooke and continuing down through the Glen to eventually terminate at Jolicoeur and de Montmagny. The same 1968 map indicates the 78 also taking the Glen but then veering along St. Catherine to its new terminus at the Atwater Metro.
The clue may perhaps be exactly when those dark yellow and black circular bus stop signs were installed in Montreal and, in particular, on Lansdowne Avenue, thus indicating its established route number circa 1956 or later, given that the earliest possible date of the photo would have to be the fall of 1955 when 1956 car models went on sale to the public.
The MTC's earlier, likewise circular bus stop signs were perforated in the center, had a different colour and font, and can be seen in 1953 street photos.
Apparently, the Victoria Avenue bus had/has a reputation. See Gazette, February 19, 1972, page 4, entitled: "Nobody Wants Bus Route 124".
The streetcar right-of-way or lane in the first photo was a great place for mischief. As soon as the southbound streetcars turned into the lane from Queen Mary, there was a stop. As soon as the car came to a stop, the neighbourhood "delinquents" would run out and pull the trolley pole off the wire. That meant the motorman had to get out, walk to the back and put the trolley wheel at the end of the pole back on the wire. You had to be sure it was a one-man car. In the green two-man cars, the conductor sat next to the back door so you wouldn't have as much of a head start when running away.
ReplyDeleteWhen the lane was completely paved and buses started running, we would ride the back of the buses. You could stand on the bumper and cling to the top of the frame around the advertising card on the back of the bus. The driver couldn't see you. In the winter, it was bus "skiing." As soon as a bus stopped, you would grab the rear bumper and crouch down letting the bus pull you along. There had to be enough slippery snow so you could actually slide. If you suddenly came upon a bare patch, you would tumble face forward if you didn't quickly let go of the bus. Quite a few Snowdon mothers wondered why the soles on their saintly offspring's boots were wearing out so quickly.
Did anyone happen to notice the article that also appeared on page 21 of the June 23, 1955 issue of the Gazette?
ReplyDeleteThere was a convention of the electrical and mechanical sections of the Association of American Railroads being held in Montreal. Amongst other things, there was discussion of atomic-powered locomotives, but "Old King Coal will continue to reign as monarch for many decades to come". (steam locomotives lasted only another five years)
The 78 bus route went through several changes over the years.
ReplyDeleteOriginally there was a very short streetcar route on the Glen, the shortest on the entire system. The "97 Glen" shuttled back and forth on the Glen Road between St. Catherine and St. Antoine. Really it was more a convenience for Montreal Tramways Company employees than anything else saving them a short walk up the hill to St. Catherine from the carbarn at the Glen/De Courcelle and St. Antoine.
In 1926, it was replaced by the "78 Glen" bus route that travelled on Glen Road, St. Catherine, Victoria, Sherbrooke, Lansdowne, Glen, De Courcelle for a short distance until turning back at a small loop on the north side of the CN tracks in St. Henri near where the St. Henri coach yards once were.
The route was extended southward in 1931. Instead of going straight down De Courcelle, it turned west on Upper Lachine (St. Jacques today), south on Desnoyers, west on Cazelais, south on St. Remi, and then it looped back by way of Cote St. Paul, Notre Dame and St. Remi.
In 1951, it was again extended southward. This time it continued south on St. Remi, which becomes Laurendeau and then looped back on De L'Eglise, Eadie, Le Caron, and Laurendeau. I'm not sure whether the loop was done clockwise or counterclockwise.
A rerouting and another southward extension came in 1953. This time, the route turned west on Upper Lachine (St. Jacques)and went all the way to St. Remi where it turned south. It then turned southwest on Cote St. Paul and went across the Lachine Canal at the old bridge at De L'Eglise, turned west on St. Patrick, then south on Monk to Radout, Briand, Allard and back to Monk.
That routing lasted until 1966 when the northern terminus was changed. The bus now turned east on St. Catherine and followed it to the Atwater loop in front of the Forum.
The "124 Victoria" terminated at Victoria and St. Catherine until it was extended in 1964. It then went east on St. Catherine from Victoria, south on Glen, west on Upper Lachine (St. Jacques), south on St. Remi continuing on Laurendeau, Jolicoeur, Jogues, Jacques Hertel, Mazarin, Jolicoeur to return. There were changes again a few years later with the route travelling south of Sherbrooke on Lansdowne so it wouldn't duplicate another route already using Victoria south of Sherbrooke and along St. Catherine.
Early bus stops used by the Montreal Tramways Company were round like a doughnut with a large hole in the middle. A thick vertical and horizontal bar were inside the circle, looking like four spokes of a wheel. The word "TRAMWAY" was written on each of the bars, sharing the letter "M" in the centre. The word "AUTOBUS" was written on the top arc of the circle. The four "spokes" left four pie slice-shaped perforations or empty spaces between the four arms of the vertical and horizontal bars.
When the Montreal Transportation Commission officially took over in 1951, the bus stops started being changed over to solid round signs. The signs still had "AUTOBUS" written in an arc at the top. The doughnut "ring" was now just an effect done in a darker brown colour while the centre was yellow. They had "ROUTE XX" written along the bottom arc. In the middle of the now solid sign, were the words "STOPS HERE" in French above the English. There was also a small arrow below the words pointing to the route number below.
Eventually the bilingual "STOPS HERE" was replaced by the route number(s) in a dark brown bar with "ROUTE XX" along the bottom arc being eliminated. The arrow stayed, now below the route number(s).
Incidentally, pavement was laid around only the northbound tracks of the private streetcar right-of-way (as seen in the photo) because a new bus route had started sharing the laneway for the first time on June 26, 1955. The "66 Cote des Neiges (later redesignated the "66 Boulevard") was inaugurated on June 26, 1955 to replace most of the old "14 Guy Beaver Hall Hill" streetcar route. (The Lansdowne, Westmount Blvd., Claremont portion was replaced by the "114" bus route). The new "66" bus route came down Cote St. Luc from Westmount, turned north on the streetcar lane, east on Queen Mary, south on Decarie and back to Cote St. Luc to start another trip. Only the northbound side of the streetcar laneway would be shared by buses until November 3, 1957 when the "48 St. Antoine" streetcar route became a bus route. The southbound lane was then also paved around the rails so buses could now use both sides of the lane.
ReplyDeleteAs Urban Legend notes, that Sunday, June 26, 1955 was a big day for the west end as it meant the first large scale streetcar discontinuances in the area. Both the "65 Cote des Neiges" and "14 Guy Beaver Hall Hill" streetcar routes had been very familiar and well established routes with the Westmount route being the older of the two.
On that same day, the very last new streetcar route in Montreal was inaugurated -- the "14 Sherbrooke." This rush hour only route ran from Girouard and Sherbrooke, along Sherbrooke, Atwater, St. Jacques, McGill, Craig to Craig Terminus. By September 2, 1956, a little over a year later, it was gone.
That day in 1956 marked the largest discontinuance of streetcar routes in the west end (and downtown) leaving Monkland, Grand, Somerled, Sherbrooke and St. Catherine without streetcars.
The east end by then had already lost streetcar service on St. Denis (1953), Amherst, Chambord, De La Roche, a portion of Laurier (1948) and Christophe Colomb (1948).
Fittingly, the first really major street to lose streetcar service was the dividng line between east and west -- the iconic St. Lawrence Boulevard. Buses took over on October 25, 1952.
Bus Business - Part Two
ReplyDeleteGenerally, MTC bus service frequency was fairly decent in Montreal through most of the 1960s until the bad old days of the multiple strikes of the 1970s and service cutbacks of the 1980s when I became so annoyed, I would often walk to places rather than wait. Thankfully, our transit is currently receiving more funding than it used to, so let us hope that service improves even further.
I'm not sure the MTC even continues the once-common rule that a bus may not pass the one in front of him (or her) of the same route number in order to maintain his or her shift-schedule. I do see same-route busses pass each other, whether one is full or not. However, other cities I have visited are more strict regarding such passing. In fact, it is often a reprimandable offense. (Hmmm...I do believe I just made up a new word).
I should mention one oddity that certain other city transit networks engage in that, thankfully, Montreal does NOT (at least not yet!), which is the so-called "set down only" rule, whereby a bus driver (for internal scheduling reasons) can arbitrarily decide to bypass stops--regardless if would-be passengers are waiting there--and to allow only existing passengers on his bus to disembark at the stops for which said passengers have rung the bell beforehand.
Imagine if the MTC tried to pull that stunt here? Public lynchings would ensue!
See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bus_stop
Bus Business - Part One
ReplyDeleteRegarding the re-routing of certain MTC busses, I've often wondered if ulterior, perhaps union rules-based motives would prevail over convenience to the public.
For example, I've always contended that instead of having St. Laurent route 55 terminate on the west side of the Provincial Court House, it ought to originate right from the Old Port property itself south of de la Commune (originally known as Common Street). There is plenty of room in the port at the foot of St. Lawrence for a loop alongside the small tour busses. I could be wrong, but I suspect that the Old Port being federal property, the city doesn't want to pay for the space.
For years, I had always hoped for a de la Commune bus route as well, and thankfully the 515 was inaugurated a few years ago, although there seems to be some contention as to how useful it really is, never mind that the city had hardly publicized its existence to begin with. If the city banned vehicular traffic on parts of de la Commune, ridership would obviously improve, but I imagine they prefer the parking-meter revenue.
But, returning to the 55: for an all-too-brief period in the mid-80s, this vital route actually terminated at the Henri Bourassa Metro, thus making it virtually a top-to-bottom route, but because the Youville Garage's Chabanel gate just east of St. Lawrence was so convenient to drivers, I think that the temptation was too great for them to prefer taking their lunch and rest period at that location instead, thus we've since had a situation where another bus must be taken--the ridiculously short and infrequent route 53 connecting the Cremazie Metro to Henri Bourassa Metro, despite the fact that it is only a 5-6 minute ride further on from Chabanel to Henri Bourassa and vice versa. Is that extra distance too much to expect from a bus driver?
Then, of course, we have the Mountain route 11 heaving its way up steep and narrow Ridgewood Avenue and back when it ought to terminate closer to the Cote des Neiges Metro, thus generating more revenue with increased passenger usage.
Another no-brainer is to run northbound route 17 on Girouard and then east on Monkland instead of the problematic Cote St.Luc to connect to other bus routes at the Villa Maria Metro, and then continuing north on Decarie and to Cote Vertu as it currently does. As it stands today, however, anyone disembarking from a different bus route at Villa Maria who prefers or needs the 17 bus rather than descending into the northbound Metro, must walk or run north on Decarie and, if seeing it, hope to catch it before it veers north from Cote St. Luc Road, or otherwise wait for the next all-too-infrequent one--snow, rain or shine.
And while were at it, why not re-absorb route 64 back into the 17, therefore re-establishing most of the original Cartierville line the way it used to be? All of this switching from bus to bus--especially in bad weather--can be a damn nuisance. Besides, isn't it easier to change a fatigued driver than to create crowds of running students or working stiffs (working frozen stiffs?) who need to make an ongoing connection?
Yes, one may argue that duplicating an already-existing Metro route with a parallel bus route is "wasteful redundancy", but when you consider that the Metro does sometimes--albeit temporarily--shut down for various reasons, having a "duplicate" choice already in place is clearly wiser than having to call up "shuttle routes" on short notice to satisfy angry would-be passengers whose schedules have been thrown off-kilter by such Metro breakdowns--despite how infrequently they occur.
Update regarding bus route 55. As of 2019, the northern terminus is on Millen Avenue facing the IGA to the north of the Henri Bourassa Metro station. Finally! The short route 53 still exists, but of what real value it will maintain remains to be seen. I have a sneaking suspicion that many of these short routes (such as route 13) only exist for training purposes or other nebulous reasons yet to be revealed.
DeleteI still insist that route 17 ought to have its southern terminus at Lionel-Groulx Metro (and not the "dead zone" at dreary Metro St. Henri) and that on its northern direction busses swerve to pick up passengers (many of them students) at Metro Villa Maria and then continue north. More passengers, more revenue. So far, my emails to the STM suggesting these alterations have fallen on deaf ears. :-(
There was a unique (I believe) bus stop at the SW corner of Sherbrooke and Victoria until the Metro opened in October 1966. Rather than a large group of route numbers on the black and yellow bus stop (the 78, 102, 103, 105, 124 (and probably the 411 (née 11E) double-fare Westminster express), it simply said "Toutes les lignes/All lines".
ReplyDeleteWonderful people, on this Wonderful site telling us about Wonderful things about Wonderful Montreal. I thank you all, in more ways than I can express: my genuine thank you all for telling us what you know about our
ReplyDeleteWonderful and unique city. . . and, I love you all for celebratimg the Wonderful thoughts I always retian of my Beautiful city by the - - - river?? Oh well, no matter where, I love Montreal.
Sincerely,
LR
First off, Thank You to Mr. Urban Legend for finding the articles in the Gazette regarding the bus substitutions in 1955 and 1956.
ReplyDeleteI remember when the 102 Somerled started operating, we now had Autobus service right at the corner at Fielding and West Broadway.
Thank You to Mr. JM regarding the solid Autobus signs!!!
Montreal Tramways Company Cast Iron Autobus Sign, pre 1951 as featured in many old Coolopolis photos..
http://www.stm.info/en-bref/882.htm
http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2598/stmtrambus1953.jpg
Special Version of later MTC sign in Colour featuring the arrow pointing down.
Usually there would be just a Route Number in black crossbar where the triangle is with the arrow below.
The top trim piece is for this special service.
http://www.montrealgazette.com/7862297.bin
I could not find a photo of the 1951-52-era yellow version with the route numbers around the lower rim, yet.
The bus sign in Coolopolis photo No. 3 is of the later version and 'fits in' with the age of the autos.
I recalled the All Lines bus stop sign, but had forgotten where it was.
There was a reversed-colours yellow on black Exit Only Autobus sign on Sherbrooke just West of Patricia where patrons could only descend before the 102-105 turned into Elmhurst Loop.
There must have been others.
There was a Cast Iron Tramways Autobus sign on eBay about ten years ago and I called a friend in NDG who telephoned the seller in the Lachute area.
The sign did not sell on eBay and my friend worked out a deal by 'phone and went and picked it up.
I saw it in NDG and drooled, he also having several of the later Yellow/Black version with the horizontal route numbers and the black arrow below.
A few years later the Cast Iron sign was presented to a recognized 'Authority' on Montreal Tramways who is assembling photos and data for a forthcoming book on the Tramways to update the Binns Book, and the Authority almost dropped to his knees and Genuflected as if the sign was a piece of the True Cross or some such significant Artifact.
He had never seen one in the flesh since the MTC removed them. Neither had I.
Gotta love eBay! Unearthing the past, bid by bid.
As far as I know the Cast Iron Autobus sign from eBay is now at Exporail Delson/St. Constant??
When the 105 went to Terminus Atwater.
http://www.lesarchivesduphotographe.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/CI-DIA-23051966-1-fil.jpg
Thank You.
With further reference to that private tram/bus right-of-way between Cote St. Luc and Queen Mary Road...
ReplyDeleteI also remember there was an MTC inspector's booth (with telephone) at its south-east corner with Cote St. Luc Road, approximately where the "Lave Auto" sign is in this Google view:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=45.479166,-73.625307&spn=0.000015,0.009645&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.4792,-73.625162&panoid=vhno2zko0F4x6lIuJYbHEg&cbp=12,302.37,,1,2.25
Needless to say, I used to ride my bike along that private road both before and after the busses were discontinued, enjoying that peaceful, traffic-free shortcut for years right to the very end of its existence, long before our "official" bike paths appeared on our streets.
The city was also required to maintain that road even after the busses had gone for good. I once saw a street-flusher truck keeping it clean. Adjacent tree branches eventually drooped lower and lower over it as well, so I imagine they had to be trimmed from time to time.
It would be interesting to learn what kind of property-line expansion arrangements were made with the local Earnscliffe duplex-owners and whatever Clanranald dwellings backed up against it. It must surely be a rare event having one's back yard enlarged under such unique circumstances too, considering that the right-of-way was put through before long before Earnscliffe Avenue even existed. Perhaps one of those residents reading this can enlighten us?
See this Google view from the cul-de-sac of Avonmore Avenue facing east toward the rear of the Earnscliffe duplexes:
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=45.480041,-73.627708&spn=0.000015,0.009645&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.480041,-73.627708&panoid=F14Nrw7QDM_--k4LYuZGKQ&cbp=12,22.84,,0,0
How many remember that this lucky resident had his FRONT lawn significantly enlarged when reconfigurations were made at the southeast corner of Girouard and Guillaume Couture. See Google maps below which shows the hedged-in lawn to the right of the little trailer. This lawn was originally smaller, having been preceded by the curving of the streetcar tracks and later the road asphalt after the tracks had been removed or paved over.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=45.478023,-73.624213&spn=0.000015,0.009645&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.477974,-73.624094&panoid=VnAMkZOAMuJhrBkY3ZsljA&cbp=12,354.91,,0,4.64
In any event, this corner of Cote St. Luc Road, Girouard, and Terrebone had over many decades been rearranged several times to accommodate the increasing traffic and accessibility to these converging neighbourhoods.
If anyone has any further relevant photos, please post them here or refer their location.
Around 1980?? after absorbing a great meal at Cote St. Luc Bar BQ, I walked North on the old right of way, the Autobuses no longer using it.
ReplyDeleteI was wondering if they had overlooked some of the old bus stop signs and we later could make a visit to 'preserve' one.
No luck.
There was once a small piece of right of way to the South across CSL road with gravel in lieu of Asphalt, an almost-street running the streetcar tracks over to Girouard as it curved to the West when looking South.
To the West was a HUGE Diamond Taxi sign up high which visually dominated the whole area.
After walking North to QM on the old discontinued RoW, I was opposite the tall apartment building which eyesores the whole region.
When working for the Bell I installed telephones there for the first tenants.
A lot of problems re 'Concealed Wiring' in the solid walls located using a Buzzer and the 1011B Lineman's Test Set.
Often the wiring was 'Grounded Out' possibly by the wire mesh in this type of wall, and the Installer had to run normal JKTN wire with his staple gun exposed on the walls, the concealed wiring useless.
One plan the Bell experimented with was to have a base transformer in the basement and run voltage up the cable risers on Pair Slate/Violet so the Installer would have a power source for the electric light inside the Princess Telephone.
This would eliminate the need for an ugly transformer and wire in the apartments which ordered Princess Telephones.
A notice was placed in the Cross Connect Terminal in the basement advising the Installer about this.
Also installed telephones in the other highsore on Monkland next the the HUnter Exchange, the apartments in the area near Adalbert and the Robbie Burns Taverne.
The block opposite Patricia on Sherbrooke and the two at Cavendish.
When they were assembling the tower crane for one of the Cavendish buildings, it fell over, bridging Sherbrooke and knocking bricks off the East corner of a lower apartment on the North side.
The newer bricks could still be seen if one knew where to look.
The crane man broke his leg.
Traffic and the 105 were snarled all night.
Thank You.
Speaking of bus signs...there are still remnants of painted poles where Provincial Transport/Metropolitain Provincial buses would stop in Baie d'Urfe and Beaconsfield...until a few years ago, there was still a Metropolitain Provincial stop right on a pole along Sherbrooke East (their Repentigny line from Radisson Metro)...and along the Trans Canada service road west of Fairview, before Merck-Frosst, next to the forest lot that at one time was going to be the relocated John Abbott Campus, was, high up on a street lamp, a zone-change division point designator for Metropolitain...service which all ended in November/1980.
ReplyDeleteRadio advertising jingles from the early 60's (from the large billboards/signs pictured or described in these postings):
ReplyDeleteCall Diamond Taxis for better service
VIctor 2-3221
Dependable, quicker Diamond service
VIctor 2-3221.
[number became 842-3221, and eventually the current 273-6331]
It's a treat, a family treat
Kik Cola, the real cola
First in family size, be quality wise
Get Kik - the real cola.
Kik Cola.
I don't recall any jingles for Pinky (trading) stamps - issued by Steinberg's (one stamp for every 10 cents' worth purchased; 50 stamps per page; about 20 pages per book). I still have the bathroom scale purchased with several books of Pinkies. :-)
I very much remember Raphael Ruffo's salvage yard at the south end of the tramway lane and also the supervisor's kiosk.
ReplyDeleteThe "straightening" of the north end of Girouard took place in the summer of 1974. It's hard to believe it was almost 40 years ago.
Every year there are fewer and fewer of us who actually rode the streetcars. Even if your teenage years were in the 1950s, you would now be in or entering your 70s. And by the 1950s, it was already the twilight of the streetcar era.
By 1959, the last remaining streetcar route in the west end was the "17 Cartierville," which lasted until the end of June. By then the cars were looking shabby as the maintenance was reduced to what was absolutely necessary. The tracks on the private right-of-way between "big" Decarie and "little" Decarie south of Garland to just north of Queen Mary had been single-tracked with most of the right-of-way paved for buses. Double tracks remained on a short stretch of Queen Mary west of Decarie to the tramway lane, south on the lane, south on Girouard, east on Upper Lachine to De Courcelle. As I noted earlier, this allowed the few remaining cars to get to and from the St. Henri carbarns for storage and limited maintenance.
By that June 1959 date, only three routes remained in the east end: the Delormier route, which lasted until July 18, and the Papineau and Rosemont routes. Those two routes shared a good portion of Papineau and were the final two to go at the end of August.
Interestingly the track network by then had large orphan sections so the last streetcars had to be taken from their respective carbarns by truck to the Youville shops for scrapping. The newest cars in the fleet -- the streamlined PCC cars, which were longtime fixtures on the "29 Outremont" and later the "54 Rosemont" after the former was discontinued -- were only 15 years old. In streetcar terms, they were barely young adults so the MTC kept them at Youville hoping to sell them. With no interest from Toronto or other cities, the cars were finally scrapped in the early 1960s by an outside salvage company.
In more innocent times, it was great fun to visit the Montreal Tramways Company/Montreal Transportation Commission head office on Craig Street. Without so much as an appointment, the public relations staff would graciously let me sit in an empty office while they brought in streetcar photo albums, maps, the track book and other items so this streetcar fan could indulge to his heart's content.
Hampstead Towers (5120 Earnscliffe, first appearing in the 1967-68 Lovells Directory) violated the existing building zoning codes not to exceed a certain height.
ReplyDeleteNevertheless, through some kind of subterfuge or palm-greasing with city officials, the owner somehow managed to continue adding floors with the city inspectors turning a blind eye until it reached what looks like a total of 25 (including the commercial ones having Queen Mary Road addresses).
I remember someone telling me the name of the owner was and how this fiasco ever occurred in the first place, but I have forgotten the details. Surely, someone reading this will know? Perhaps Kristian will have a few sources of relevant information.
I suspect, however, that there was an ulterior motive all along behind the project, considering that an enormous transmitting tower was immediately installed on the roof by Motorola, with one of the users being the RCMP. Obviously, such an optimum location on what would turn out to become the tallest building in the west end provided unprecedented signal coverage for the metropolitan area so it is entirely possible that somebody influential pulled some strings.
Strangely enough, several years ago the radio tower was unceremoniously dismantled and never replaced. One has to wonder how its previous users reacted, although I seem to remember some concurrent media controversy regarding electromagnetic radiation being the possible cause of cancer and a potential source of other health issues, and, as we all know, relevant studies continue to this day.
Several years ago, a large satellite dish attached to the west side of the 5120 Earnscliffe came loose and crashed down upon the roof of the adjacent apartment building 5475-5481 Queen Mary Road--which itself has also been continuously plagued by "mysterious fires" requiring several, extensive renovations.
Indeed, so many fires have occurred at 5475-81 that it is a miracle it hasn't been completly demolished by now, and one has to be more than suspicious that somebody is hiring arsonists in a desperate attempt to drive the building's owners to abandon the place, thus creating the opportunity for some shark "developer" to snap up the property in order to construct another high-rise or condo monstrosity. Thus far, however, 5475-81 has miraculously managed to survive--at least until the next fire--although you couldn't pay me to move in there for any amount of money. Renters beware!
Concerning the violation of building height restrictions: how many remember that the city did prevent the builder of that 4994 Cote des Neiges apartment building (see Google map below) from extending more than 4 floors, reportedly because raising it higher would have partially blocked the view of nearby St. Joseph's Oratory.
In fact, the 4994 building replaced the old PSBGM Cote des Neiges School (also known as Coronet School back in the day) which had been inexplicably demolished for no good reason that I recall, especially during that era of schoolroom shortages.
http://maps.google.ca/maps?hl=en&ll=45.494315,-73.618269&spn=0.000015,0.009645&t=m&z=17&layer=c&cbll=45.494404,-73.61818&panoid=De9Y703yKeiDxkdZGvueXQ&cbp=12,132.76,,0,-6.21
Arrrgh, I missed a good one!
ReplyDeleteI grew up right next to the private streetcar right of way. At the end of Avonmore avenue, you can still see some streetcar track left in place in the old right-of-way.
North end of the PROW (José Rizal park), Snowdon avenue crossing (turn 180° for the other), south end of the PROW.
The 17 and 48 were combined around 1974-75 after the people who lived next to the 17 terminus on Monkland, between Earnscliffe & Girouard complained about the noise and smell of the buses (I know, my parents were amongst those who complained — we had moved right there in 1970). It made for an unwieldingly long line (this is why re-merging the 17 and 64 won't work — the 17 is parallel to a métro line and thus has very low ridership, whereas the 64 continues it) and eventually, the 17 was terminated at St-Henri in 1981 when the Métro opened to there, and to Côte-Vertu when the Métro opened to there several years later; the northern portion of the line was then assured by the 64.
The M&SC cars shared a street loop in front of the terminal with Montréal streetcars. At the end of the loop was an automatic switch which was powered by whichever wire drew power, because there was two wires, one for the MTC and one for the M&SC. Then one day, a Montréal car depoled, and the motorman put the pole back on the wrong wire, and happily went onto M&SC tracks until it met a M&SC car on the Victoria Bridge…
MP&I, Re: Raphaël Ruffo. Oh wow. When my father built the country house, he got many material from Ruffo’s salvage yard, which had then moved to Blainville… We must have met at the Il Était Une Fois supper that celebrated the CRHA 50'th anniversary; I made a M&SC screetcar out of meccano… :) :) :) :)
Regarding the 78, I recall many times being bitterly disappointed to see a 78 show-up instead of the 102 or the 103 when I wanted to get back to Notre-Dame-de-Grâces from the Atwater Métro, in the 1970’s, so the 78 had it’s terminus moved there in the early 1970’s…
I've seen more than once over the last 40 years a full bus intentionally skip some stops, the latest one not earlier than 2 weeks ago, on the 125, during a Métro outage.
Jingles =
ReplyDeleteGet away for a day, for a week, for a month...get away, the easy way.
You'll be glad for sure,
with Voyageur,
where there's less to pay..
and less delay...
Kentucky Fried Chicken,
in your neighbourhood...
Colonel Sanders and his boys...
make it finger lickin' good
You can still visit the STM archives in Place Bonaventure by appointment...the staff is very helpful. I even found letters in their files that I had sent in the 80s to Lawrence Hanigan.
ReplyDeleteYes, certainly when a bus is jammed full to the gills with passengers (usually around a big game or other event), the driver can logically bypass stops where would-be passengers are waiting. Sorry, were too full!
ReplyDeleteOn the other hand, if a passenger already on that jammed-full bus wants to disembark at such a stop, then the driver generally allows one or two new passengers aboard.
I often remember this happening during snowstorms. Sometimes brazen schoolkids would even sneak in the side doors after others disembarked.
The "set down rule" used by other transit systems to which I refer, however, is different in that the driver can arbitrarily flash a "SET DOWN ONLY" message on the display over his windshield, as our MTC drivers often do with "HORS SERVICE".
That way, if you are waiting for a bus of that particular route, you can at least see the "SET DOWN ONLY" warning, and that he's not stopping for you. Tough luck!
Different transit sistems have different rules. Some forbid exiting from the front door--period. Others only allow a certain maximum of passengers aboard for safety reasons. Others will not allow passengers to enter or disembark other than at the curb and not the street pavement.
I seem to remember our busses having a sign at the front which said, "Do not talk to the driver".
The "no spitting" signs have disappeared as well, as have the "no food or drink" pictograms.
It must selective Alzheimer's, but I do not remember the Inspecteur's Kiosk at CSL and the Tramways RoW.
ReplyDeleteHmmmm.
In the tracks at the car stop there just North of CSL were track expansion joints to take up expansion and contraction of steel in exposed portion of track before they were paved over North for Autobuses.
Wonder if they are still there under the parking lot of the Car Wash to the East of the taxi stand.
Track expansion joint on right track just North of Terminus Garland.
http://dewi.ca/trains/montreal/pix/a005_12.jpg
In the far distance can be seen the 'slot' of Decarie up past Dalou and Ponsard to CSL, and the 'Big Bank' with it's sign to the left.
To left of streetcar is low-sided City of Montreal Sicard dump truck. The sides were low so walking shovellers cleaning up winter sand, etc. did not have to throw so high.
As is well known, the Decarie Expressway changed all that.
There was another almost-street right of way on Queen Mary just East of Cote de Neiges over to Gatineau? to the east of the Oratory and the Wax Museum.
Before it came off, we thrilled to the big descent down Cote de Neiges to Sherbrooke on the 65 CdeN streetcar, occasionally going up to Beaver Lake on the 93 Remembrance.
The ugly structure on the NW corner of Remembrance was spooky.
We too had a pink bathroom scale, 'Ritz' brand, which may have come from Pinky Stamps???
Pinky Stamps could be redeemed at the Steinberg's at Cavendish and Sherbrooke as I recall. There was a PTC bus stop sign out front in Orange and Black, the colours of the Provincial buses at the time.
Steinberg's had red trucks, still.
Red Steinberg's truck heading East at Prud'homme and St. James/Jacques before the expressway messed this up, too.
http://www.railpictures.net/images/d1/0/3/4/6034.1248744572.jpg
A nice view to the left from here below Decarie of Turcot Roundhouse and the mountains far, far away.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v718/Charlie_dunver/Bookscan2.jpg
The 'Gantry' to the lower right, one of two, was for an electric travelling crane with a clam shell bucket that moved quenched ashes from water-filled ash pits under the tracks to gondolas, collected from ash pans on incoming steam locomotives.
There was lots to see when you went to look at Turcot in the Fifties.
LaSalle Coke and it's rising and falling 'Gasometers' Gasholders would be seen beyound the Lachine Canal to the far right.
Video rising and falling gasholder.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-qSHvkYF5k
LaSalle Coke's were much larger.
Royal Mail was handled in red trucks from 'Rod Service Ltee.'
We had to go to Terminus Craig to have photos taken for 'Bus Passes'.
When my Father died, I found a small collection of 'Tramways' items, including several Tramways Student Passes/w photos for himself and his brother from the Twenties.
It all went to Exporail.
Their school class visited Youville Shops at some point and had a great time.
As far as 'Jingles' are concerned, the only one I can remember rite now was for BA which went something like;
'Turn in at the sign of the big BA,
Your motoring companion all the way! etc.
There was another Jingle on the radio all the time for 'Peoples Credit Jewellers' and another from a Coal company.
My, My, My.
Thank You.
As for buses stopping/starting, I have had luck even being picked up by out-of-service buses...on a cold 31Dec, walking along St-Joseph E., a garage-bound bus, empty, pulled in and said he could take me as far as the Metro...another time, waiting at Decarie south of Villa Maria, connecting from the 102 to the 24, a short-loop 24, having dropped pax at Villa-Maria, was going empty eastbound to start service only at Atwater, again on a cold winter's night...the driver, a very cute young girl, asked where I was going, and when I said "Sherbrooke & St-Laurent", she said to hop on board as she was only in service east of Atwater.
ReplyDeleteWhat Exporail needs is for some magnanimous philanthropist to donate several million (tax-deductible) dollars so that they can refurbish every last one of their streetcars, locomotives, etc., but somehow I doubt I will live that long to see this happen.
ReplyDeleteThe Kenebunkport and Baltimore museums have treated their rail history with much more concern and respect than we have.
Shame on us!
Baltimore is a major league city. Montreal is Peoria of the North with grand thoughts of itself but not the dollars or civic pride and citizenry who will stand up to the plate. We have hermits like Robert Miller who horde their cash, and Guy Laliberte, who trolls the beach for tail, while other cities have bright lights who give to the symphony, museums, buy into major league sports franchises, etc.
ReplyDeleteUrban Legend: Won't happen. Some people there are pretty anal about athenticity, even when rusted through.
ReplyDeleteI remember working on fixing the brake system on a streetcar that carried visitors, and one tiny 1/4 inch pipe on a valve was badly rusted. No, we could not change it!
* * *
I was lucky too with oute of service buses; after the snowstorm after Christmas, I was waiting for the bus when an emoty out-of-service bus stopped and asked if we went to the Métro.
Which we did, so we hopped on board. Turns out the driver has been on duty for 15 hours; he got stuck in the snow and he waited 12 hours for the towing to show-up... He was glad to finally have some passengers...
How pathetic that during restorative work a lousy pipe underneath a streetcar--unseen by anyone--cannot be changed due to someone's twisted idea of "authenticity". I can't imagine most museums worrying too much about such trivia. Just do whatever it takes to make it run again, that's all!
ReplyDeleteSuch ridiculous notions don't hold water, of course--particularly with cars, trucks, and busses.
For one thing, original parts may very well be inferior to what was manufactured at a later date. Just look at all of the recalls!
Would you rather install an inferior brake pad on a vintage bus just because it is "original"?
What happens when someone is restoring a vintage automobile? Does the owner really expect to find strictly original parts such as tires, pistons, seats, and so on? Good luck!
He could spend a lifetime searching scrap yards worldwide in vain and never find the original part he seeks.
Furthermore, how can one always prove if a presumed original part isn't "only a replica", fakery being so widespread?
More jingles:
ReplyDeleteTurn in at the sign of the big BA
Your travelling companion all the way
There you'll get service fit for a king
And products that make your engine sing
Follow the leader all the way
Turn in at the sign of the big BA.
More Canadians shop at Dominion
Than at any other store
And it's mainly because of the meat
(Because of the meat?)
Because of the meat.
Dorval, Dorval
The shopping centre you know so well
35 stores, quite so near
Shopping both in front and rear
......
And on Tuesday, Thursday, Friday nights
Shop til 9:30 under floodlights.
The big ale in the big land
Is Molson Export Ale......
Mark 10 for men
Mark 10 for men
Mark 10 for men, man size taste.
Rothman's King Size, really satisfies......
Smoke Du Maurier for real smoking pleasure
Du Maurier, the cigarette of goof taste
A mild cigarette. with the best filter yet
That's why the trend today
Is to Du Maurier.
Have a Colt, the little cigar.....
Thanks for the jingles. You've brought back many memories of radio listening and TV viewing.
ReplyDeleteThank You! Also!!
ReplyDeleteI remember in the 1970s turning on the radio at 7 a.m. and hearing beer ads!
ReplyDelete"Carlsberg Lite...all right!".
C'mon! Who the hell is thinking of beer at 7 a.m.?!
Ring, ring, ring,
ReplyDeleteVous placez vous,
Put, put, put,
St. Hubert Bar-B-Q.
More beverage jingles from the 60's:
ReplyDeleteDow brings out the best in beer
The best in beer, the best in beer
Now that hockey time is here
Bring out the best in beer.
Here's to a summer of fun
And here's to the days that are best
Sing along with the gang your favourite request
And say OK for O'Keefe.
Molson Canadian, really Canadian
Molson Canadian, lager beer.
You get a lot when you get Cott
The finest beverage you can buy
C-O-T-T spells quality
And a cool cool flavour that tastes oo so goo
If it's Cott, yes if it's Cott
It's Cott to be, Cott to be good.
Kool-Aid, Kool-Aid
A six-cent package makes two quarts full....
The whole town's beating the drum for Teem
The drink that's full of fun and flavour
Crystal-clear lemon lime
Most refreshing any time
The whole town's beating the drum for Teem.
New Teem is here, it's crystal clear
In the bright green bottle....
How can just one calorie taste so good
How can just one calorie taste so good
But the Coca-Cola company kept the flavour in Tab.
@Urban Legend
ReplyDelete"C'mon! Who the hell is thinking of beer at 7 a.m.?!"
If you had just worked the overnight shift, going to the tavern at 8:00 in the morning was the same as going after 5:00 for those on the day shift.
I recall seeing many night shift workers enjoying a quart of Molson or Labatt with their bacon and eggs in the morning -- an acquired taste.
I was thinking more along the lines of Jim Morrison...
ReplyDelete"Well, I woke up this morning and had myself a beer..." ;-)
Probably my last list of jingles for this post.
ReplyDelete(the English version):
Ring-a-ling-a-ling
That's all you do
Put-put-put St-Hubert Bar B-Q.
A barbecue that tastes so fine
And it's brought to you in the fastest time
Ring-a-ling-a-ling
That's all you do
Put-put-put St-Hubert Bar B-Q.
Make a change for the better
And make the change today
At the famous White Rose sign
Canadian all the way.
Hi ho feel satisfied
Chew Wrigley's Spearmint gum
Enjoy the chewing night or day
With both hands free for work or play
Hi ho feel satisfied
Chew Wrigley's Spearmint gum
So good to chew, so good for you
Chew Wrigley's Spearmint gum.
Double your pleasure, double your fun
With Doublemint, Doublemint
Doublemint gum.
ABC proves that it's top
with the 1 pound, 2 pound, 3 pound box
of ABC detergent
Just 39, 69, 99 cents
The laundry product that makes good sense
ABC, ABC, ABC detergent.
Radio stations....
Marconi radio, CFCF
Marconi radio, CFCF
Throughout the day and night, dial CF.
Marconi radio, CFCF
Marconi radio, CFCF.
J'écoute CKVL
24 heures par jour....
And for Feb. 14....
Will you be my Valentine
CKGM valentine
We'll spend a delightful day
The great 98 way
Every day's a happy day
On CKGM.
And how did this go...?
ReplyDelete"At Dominion...courtesy with a smile at Dominion..."
...or something like that.